The Mental Checklist MLB Star Kevin Pillar Uses LOCK IN

Today on the channel, how MLB veteran Kevin Pillar overcame a “mental breakdown” and refound his confidence – thanks in part to the performance psychology work we did together.

Backstory: I first met Kevin Pillar when we were both with the Toronto Blue Jays.

He wasn’t the most hyped or heralded guy — but he was one of the smartest players, and one of the hardest workers. No scholarship offers out of high school. No draft buzz. Just grit, belief, a competitive fire, and a hardcore work ethic.

Years later, after a career-best season with the Giants, Kevin hit a wall – mentally and emotionally.

This episode is about that breakdown — and the exact tools he used to rebuild his mindset and get locked in again, both on the field and off.

We dive into the reps, the routines, and the real conversations that helped him come back stronger — and how those lessons apply well beyond the diamond. If you’re feeling the weight of pressure on your shoulders in any arena, this episode is for you.

Connect with Kevin:

✖️X (Twitter): https://x.com/kpillar4

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kpillar11/

Follow me for more:

🌐 Website: www.toughness.com

📸 Instagram: @paddysgram

💼 LinkedIn: Paddy Steinfort

✖️ X (Twitter): @paddysx

  

 Transcript:

[00:00:00] Kevin Pillar: The best way to improve your game is go out and play. You're an underdog. No one expects anything from you, but you expect the world of yourself. I was never pursuing, like getting drafted or trying to play in the major leagues. For me, it was always getting to the next level. It's all gonna come back to holding yourself accountable.

I don't have room to not be accountable. I have. To rely on myself to…

[00:00:30] Paddy Steinfort: Welcome to Toughness podcast. My name's Pat Steinford, your host, and today we're joined by. One of the most interesting stories, I think in Major League baseball, and I might be a little bit biased because I worked with Kevin Pillar at the Toronto Blue Jays when I was a part of that squad there, and he was a part of the squad.

We both moved on, ironically, ended up back with the same team a few years later at the Boston Red Sox. Welcome to the show, Kevin. 

[00:00:54] Kevin Pillar: Thanks for having me. Good to see you. I like your hair.

[00:00:55] Paddy Steinfort: Good to see you too, man. Thank you. So we were talking before the show and we've talked thousands of times about your journey, but if you go back to when you were in high school.

Looking for an opportunity to get into college and play college ball. Tell us about that period of your life. Did you wanna play big league at that point? Did you think it it was reasonable. 

[00:01:14] Kevin Pillar: I mean, it wasn't, that was never really the dream. I mean, okay, let's take it back even further in, in high school, the dream was that they get to the major leagues.

When I was a little kid, I thought I was gonna play in the major leagues, the NFL, the NBA. I thought I was gonna be a professional snowboarder wake work, anything that I, and 

[00:01:29] Paddy Steinfort: how tall are you actually, just before we move on from that NBA point, how tall are you?

[00:01:33] Kevin Pillar: currently? Oh, okay. So like 3, 4, 5 years ago I was six foot.

But now that I like established myself in the big leagues, I'm not afraid to admit I'm like five, 11 and three. Alright, good under, but like at the time, I needed every little advantage or edge I could get. Five 11, maybe. He's not tall enough. Six foot. He's a grown man, you know. Yeah, 

[00:01:54] Paddy Steinfort: I mean, I just wanted to put that NBA dream into perspective there. Anyway, back to you as a kid. 

[00:01:58] Kevin Pillar: Yeah, like, I mean, anything that I did or touched, I wanted to be, you know, I was a huge sports fan growing up, so I wanted, yeah. When I was playing with football in the backyard with my dad, I dreamed of being a big league when I was shooting hoops with my brother wanted to play in the NBA when me and my brother were playing football. When I was playing Popcorn Warner, I had dreams of playing in the NFL, but those are all the normal dreams that kids have. But it wasn't to the point where I went to my parents at a particular age and said, Hey, this is, I want to play in the major leagues, so let's focus on baseball. That never happened in my life.

Right. I think partially I was in my little gym that I made in my house working out with one of my buddies and there was a couple other guys that I put a cage in my backyard. So I've been kind of running like a bed and breakfast. I have guys coming to the side yard, they like text me, Hey, can we come and ate?

Yeah, I'm not gonna be out there, but go ahead and hit, I'll leave this stuff out there. And we were watching some of the guys walked out and he's like, oh yeah, I remember him. He played at University of Arizona and I started thinking like. I can't believe I didn't play division one baseball. Can you believe that?

And he's like, yeah, well, what was the deal? Right? And I was like. I think I was good enough. I was the best player on my high school team. I'm from a very competitive area in southern California with baseball, but I never went to area codes or perfect games, or I didn't play scout ball, I just played all the sports.

Even in high school I played three sports. So to me it was never about, I was never pursuing, like getting drafted or trying to play in the major leagues. For me, it was always getting to the next level. So at some point, maybe like my junior year of high school, I made it after my junior high school. So going into my senior year, I think I told my parents like, Hey, I think I really want to go to college and play baseball.

They're like, that's great. You know what? What are you gonna do in order to do that? And I'm like, I don't really know. I'm not gonna sacrifice playing these other sports right now. It's my senior year I wanna play football. Like who doesn't? If you're ever playing high school football, it's the best time of your life and my senior year, I want to put those pads on one more time. Enjoy the Friday night lights. So I wasn't gonna sacrifice that basketball I love. But like you mentioned on six foot, you know, I'm not the most crazy athletic. I wasn't a great shooter. I was a good high school basketball player and something I still enjoy now and knew that I could play basketball later on in my life.

So that's where the one sacrifice came. I said, I'm not gonna play basketball my senior year and I'm actually gonna have an entire fall to like, prepare for my senior year, give baseball a full go. And like I said, it was never about getting to major leagues. It was about, I. Just finding an opportunity to go to college somewhere and get my education and play baseball and, 

[00:04:37] Paddy Steinfort: and you got that Cal State Dominguez, is that right?

[00:04:40] Kevin Pillar: Cal State Dominguez Hills, yeah. Division two. But there's more than just the surface level of why I went there. There's a backstory to it too, which makes. My journey even a little bit more interesting, a little bit more crazy. So 

[00:04:53] Paddy Steinfort: right. Hit me if I haven't heard this, like 

[00:04:54] Kevin Pillar: my senior year, have a good senior year, whatever.

Not really getting a whole lot of offers like I thought I would, you know, from being a really good baseball player. But like I said, it wasn't, I don't think scouts were really, like college recruiting wasn't really coming out to games. Maybe there was some pro scouts there, but obviously I don't think anyone saw me as a draft eligible guy.

I was definitely felt like I was good enough to play with Division one College Baseball. No offers. My family's taking a family trip. Once again, this is how, I don't wanna say. Not committed. I was, but just how naive I was back then. There would've been an opportunity probably for me to go play summer ball somewhere, wood bat league, a scout bowl, league area, code, tryout, all this sort of things.

After graduating as a senior in high school, my family's taking a two week vacation to Ireland. We're gonna do the whole entire island. We're gonna, I think this bus tour around stay at different hotels. I'm, I'm, I'm going. Right? No, we come back. It's like August. You're supposed to be enrolled in college, you know where you're gonna go.

And I'm like, what the hell am I gonna do? Like have no one's called, no schools have called me. My best friend from high school, he's going to this school, Cal State Dominguez Hills, to be a pitcher. Ironically, my head coach in high school took the pitching coach job there at that university. So the college semester starts probably the end of August, and I'm like, what the hell am I gonna do?

And they're like, why don't you come to Dominguez Hills? I'm like, where's that? They're like, Carson, California. Look it up. It's an hour away from home. I'm like, okay, can I come down and visit the U campus, meet with the coach? Maybe. He's like, yeah, we'll do that. So I drive from my parents, meet with him. He tells me on the idea that this is a great place.

You're getting the opportunity to play. I am like, at this point, I don't really care. It's close enough to home. My parents can watch me play and I'm in. Do you have any money for me to go there? No. Okay. So basically I'm a recruited Walkon. That's a favor. 

[00:06:47] Paddy Steinfort: So you didn't even have a scholarship No. To a division two school.

[00:06:51] Kevin Pillar: So I was a walk-on with, kind of as a favor my, he had, the co coach had never seen me play, so now it's just word of mouth. He's trusting [ his pitching coach. He's my high school coach. Trust me, this kid can play, he can play. He'll be good here, he'll be a good influence, whatever. So 

[00:07:06] Paddy Steinfort: and so did you start in the outfield when you got there as a walk-on?

[00:07:10] Kevin Pillar: So I showed up on campus. You know, you do your, I guess your fall ball there, you're kind of sizing you guys up. There was a returning center fielder at the time, but I had a conversation with the head coach that maybe I was naive to believe, maybe he was telling the truth. I guess the way my story unfolded, it ended up.

Being the truth, but every coach is gonna tell you, Hey, it's a, you're incoming freshman. You have every opportunity to win the starting job, even though he's a returning guy. So in my mind, that's all I need to hear. Whether like I said he was telling the truth or that's just what you tell everyone. I was a naive 18-year-old kid, but me being naive was part of the reason that allowed me to get to where I got that year.

I really felt like every day was an opportunity for me to go out there and prove myself that I should play as a freshman, I should be the center fielder. And you know, as fall went along, I was sizing myself up against some guys that were older than me, guys that were returning maybe the guy that was there before me.

And you know, you fast forward to the season I was opening day center fielder. I think the kid ended up transferring outta that school going somewhere else. I don't really remember the details of that, but we could fast forward that a little bit. I mean, I become a freshman All American my first year. And Oh, I wanted, this is a reminder too, for whatever reason, he had told me too, my coach, that I know this isn't where you didn't want to end up.

And I was telling him I didn't want to go to a junior college because I felt like junior colleges were places where you could just go play sports and you try to get drafted. Wasn't necessarily about taking the right courses to get your education. And at this point, I'm still not thinking major leagues.

I'm thinking go to college for four years, play baseball, get your college degree. And you'll figure it out. It's something you'll figure out what you wanna do when you're in college. I, I, going into college, I was like, I'm gonna get my business degree. I'm gonna go to law school. Don't know where that's gonna take me, but that's the path I'm gonna go down.

Right? So my college coach, before I, even when I commit there, he says, use us as a JC if you have a great year and. You can go somewhere else, use it as a springboard for you to go to the next level. Like I said, I go out, I play every single day as a freshman, freshman all American. I go play collegiate, summer bowl in a wood batt league and have a pretty good year.

And I'm getting calls from division one schools like, Hey, we're interested in you. Do you think you could come play at some of these schools? Right? Yeah. I, I don't know anything. I, I didn't have a role model. A guy that I went to high school with, a brother, a cousin that went down this path. So I'm learning everything for the, you know, 

[00:09:38] Paddy Steinfort: as you go.

[00:09:39] Kevin Pillar: Yeah. As I go. So I had that, I pick up the phone, I call my college coach, like, Hey, uh, University of Arizona's calling. They wanna know if I could maybe transfer and play there. And I'll never forget, he gives me this speech about, it'd be like telling your wife. You found someone better, I'm gonna leave you for them.

Right. I was like, what the hell? Like that's what you told me I could do. Right. 

[00:10:02] Paddy Steinfort: He jerk you. He got you. 

[00:10:03] Kevin Pillar: Yeah. So you basically got me and no hard feeling. It 

[00:10:06] Paddy Steinfort: seems to have worked out all right. 

[00:10:07] Kevin Pillar: I ended up, yeah, I ended up meeting my wife there. Everything I've been able to accomplish in some degree as been as a result of playing at that school.

And for me, it was really important that I was gonna go somewhere. I was gonna have an opportunity to play right away. Once again, being 18, a little bit naive. I felt like there was, and I still feel this way to some degree, there is some value of. Redshirting or sitting out a year and watching guys and practicing and playing with competition better than you and trying to improve.

But I also, to some degree also feel like the best way to improve your game is go out and play. So it wasn't a matter of me going to, like, I could have walked on a U-C-L-A potentially. I didn't entertain those ideas. For me, it was important that I went somewhere I could play right away. I was still kind of a raw baseball player because.

I had never fully committed to it. I'd only played baseball during baseball season, a little bit in the backyard with my brother and dad, like whiff football. In between seasons, when I was playing Pop Warner football or travel basketball when I was a kid, I wasn't going to the cage on the weekend to take batting practice.

It was like right. I was all in on the sport I was playing, so to some degree I was still a little bit raw in. Baseball. So I was finally a full-time baseball player and I felt like it was important for me to go out there and play every single day, learn what I can do, learn what I'm not very good at, and get in a game setting and play.

[00:11:27] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. You used the word there a couple times, naive, right? And it said probably in a negative context there where like, how stupid was I that I thought this, but. Let me ask you this. Do you think there's any benefit, like for you having gone from being this kid that no one even wanted to give a division two scholarship to being where you are now to what I described as used your last season, which was a career best, and you've been in the bigs now for what, seven years? Eight years. Seven years, yeah. So you've gone from baseball, nothing to baseball, something, and then some Does being a little bit naive along the way, help in a sense like where you. 

[00:12:06] Kevin Pillar: This is kind of your department, this is your field. But I feel like there is a synonym for naive that is spun in a little bit more positive light. The word's not coming to mind right now. Optimistic. Yeah. I guess optimistic would be a good word. Even deeper than that, I think it's just a self-belief, 

[00:12:23] Paddy Steinfort: right? 

[00:12:23] Kevin Pillar: Ultimately, right? Like I had this self-belief in myself that I knew that I was. No matter what people thought of me, I knew that I could play baseball.

I knew that I was good at it, and I also knew that I was still a little bit raw because I knew I ain't committed my whole life. I was playing. I. In little league with kids that were literally playing baseball year round, hating lessons, fielding lessons, doing all this. I was still an all star. I was still probably one of the best allstar on my team, and I was doing it almost as like a hobby, like my seasonal sport that I was playing. So like I always knew I was good at it. 

[00:12:59] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah, 

[00:13:00] Kevin Pillar: yeah. I finally committed myself full time that oh my God, like. I get to actually play baseball in the fall. Then I get to like play like fall games and then I have a real season and then I could go play summer ball and I'm playing year round. I'm in the cage all the time.

I'm working out. I knew I was gonna be better than people perceived for me, so I. It was never about what people were gonna tell me. It was always about how I believed in myself and where I could go. And I think in some degree there was some external confirmation along the way. Mm-hmm. Of me being a freshman All American, like, oh shit.

Like I am pretty good. Like I am dominating the level of competition I'm playing at. I did get phone calls about some of these bigger schools that didn't offer me, wanted me to come play at their schools after my freshman year. So like I started getting some positive feedback. I really needed at that point because I was still so confident, optimistic about what I could do, but.

Getting that confirmation allowed me to believe what I was doing was right. And I think after that freshman year when I started to get those phone calls from division one schools, when I went out and played after I was a freshman All American, after I went out and played a collegiate summer league with guys that played at some bigger schools than I played in, and I held my own, and I wouldn't say dominated, but I was definitely, I held my own and performed.

That's where I think my mind started to transition to. Shit, maybe I can play in the major leagues. I didn't necessarily, at that point, I didn't know the steps that you needed to take in order to get there. Mm-hmm. That's kind of a funny story we to get there. How, once again, naive that I was, once you got drafted, I knew that there was levels.

I didn't know how many levels there was. I didn't think that when I signed. I went to Florida for like physicals, and then I got sent to short season that I was like eight steps away from getting in the big league. 

[00:14:53] Paddy Steinfort: Right. That's not, that's not an uncommon thing for new draftees though, Robert. I was, again, 

[00:14:57] Kevin Pillar: like I said, I didn't really have, I wasn't really in the baseball community. I wasn't in the baseball world where I was playing scout ball and travel ball and like. The kid on my team, my scout ball team's brother, was a first rounder or whatever. I, I didn't even know what the hell that shit meant. I was like really just not familiar with that stuff.

And it wasn't really till my junior year. So back up my freshman year is when I started to believe that maybe I could play professional baseball, at least get drafted and see where it goes. That's always how my attitude's been, I guess on a [ surface level would be. Let's just get drafted and see where it goes.

Even though deep down inside, I always knew like, if you get drafted, you're gonna make it, you know? Right. It wasn't like this. 

[00:15:40] Paddy Steinfort: Say, I wanna pick up on something there. 'cause you've said you've used this word, I've pointed out naive before, but you said you've used the word no. As in KNOW. I know this, or I knew this, and everything you've referenced besides that one, right there was, I knew that I hadn't played as much as anyone else.

I knew that I was a hard worker. I knew this. I knew like you knew things about yourself that other people wouldn't, who were probably writing you off or not writing you, and you had a belief that if you had all them together, then this is probably gonna end up well for you. But that's the first time you've said, I knew if I got drafted, I was gonna make it.

Where does that come from if you haven't got any reference points? 

[00:16:14] Kevin Pillar: Yeah, you know, I, I knew that's where you were going when you stopped me, that you were gonna ask me where do you think it comes from? And the simple answer I think is it's just upbringing. I think it's the way, the work ethic and the way my parents taught me to just work hard and it was kind of that work hard attitude and see what happens.

And I got a blend of both. It's like I said, on the surface level, it's like I'm just gonna quietly put in the work and see what happens. Even though internally I have set these crazy expectations for myself or have the confidence that I know I'm gonna get it done, even at to this point in my career where it's kind of this weird thing when things get a little bit tough in this industry, and I went through probably the hardest thing I ever went through with coming off a career year, being a free agent for the first, I was going in my last year arb, I was supposed to go back to San Francisco.

I was happy I was, had a pregnant wife. My wife's family was only an hour away, like. All the stars kind of aligned that I got traded there. I was gonna have my second kid. It was just gonna be, I live here in Arizona, spring training here, like all the stars were aligning, right? Then I get non-tender and I'm like, at first, great.

I'm just coming up the best year of my career. Like who's not gonna want my search 

I'm about to cash in, right? And it's a month before spring training. I'll have a job. And that's why when you asked me to do this, I felt like it was a perfect thing for me to do, not just 'cause of my. Story and my journey of where I came from to where I'd gotten to.

But what I went through this off season was, it was the first time where, and I know there's like a stigma around like mental health and stuff like that, but it was the first time I had like a, a mental breakdown and I actually had to, you mentioned Sam, I had to seek someone that's been in my corner, someone close to me at a level.

I never thought that I would ever get to being a professional athlete, being someone that's. Pretty confident in his ability goes with the flow a little bit. I just finally felt like things were so far out of my hand and outta my control that I lost control and I had a breakdown and I got help. And it's easy for me to talk to because I think more people need to talk about it, which it's easy for people to talk about.

Like our physical weaknesses that we have with a strength and conditioning coach or a running coach that I don't run fast enough. It's easy to talk about these physical attributes, but. Sudden there's this huge stigma about talking about a professional athlete and not having the mental strength or mental capability or to handle certain things that happen in this game.

And I hit my breaking point and I needed to seek help. And obviously it did help. It got me through it. It wasn't easy. But shortly after that, I got a job and things worked out and I ended up in a place where I was pretty happy. But I fought it for so long. I, I probably. I waited too long in, in some regards to actually seek the help that I needed.

[00:19:07] Paddy Steinfort: Well, let me, let me tell you something. 

[00:19:09] Kevin Pillar: And you know that we've never to that point where I've actually had a breakdown, but we've had a lot of interactions in our time together too, and I learned early on that it's not a sign of weakness, it's just another notch to put on our tool boat. I think that's the cool thing in sports.

And like you mentioned, even in the military now, there are people in your position available for people and it is important to understand that as much as we think as mental health, as a weakness or something, our brain is a muscle. It does need the reps and the exercises and sometimes you need to vent and sometimes you need tools in order to strengthen your mind.

And I think that's where we. Over our years of working together, we spent a lot of time and I was never afraid to ask for help. 

[00:19:52] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah, absolutely. And then, so I want to, I'll tell a little bit of the story, at least how I experienced it, right? Because I arrived at the Blue Jays my first job in professional baseball.

I've watched it as a kid, but you can hear from my accent, I'm not around. I'm not from around here. And so I wasn't super familiar with the game, but I was familiar enough with working with pro athletes and doing this sort of work, right? Mental strength and getting stronger and a lot of exercise on that front.

So doing psychology, but not so much in the clinical sense where someone's had a breakdown. There are other people who do that for the teams. I'm more on the strengthening side, but even that still, I. It's problematic for some people to make the approach and to admit or open up and say, Hey, what do you do?

Like, can you help? I'm having this issue or that issue. Or even some people don't having issues and they just wanna talk about their game. Right. And there are two guys who I did a lot of work with in that year that you and I connected a lot. One of 'em was a good friend of yours as well. Just smoke and.

Both of you came to work with me a lot during spring, but I'm, I wanna know how you got to the point where you're like, yeah, I'm gonna do that. 'cause you hadn't done that previously, right? 

[00:20:55] Kevin Pillar: Yeah, it wasn't something that was available. It was always someone, I keep referring to him as name, but Sam, who was more there for like family off the field problems, but there was never someone there that you could just talk to about, Hey, why am I feeling this way right now?

Why is my attention being taken from my performance? I'm thinking about things that should, should matter in the moment right now. And I think that's where we spent most of our time. And you know, you come into the clubhouse and I remember maybe our first interaction, you introduced yourself and you basically said, I'm here to help.

And I told you the most important thing for you to do is gain the trust in guys. Don't force yourself on 'em. This is a new thing in the game that people want to know that they can trust you. Because once again, there's a stigma around people in your line of work and potentially sharing, and especially in the baseball world you're in.

Your personal information is so important because we all feel like this game, 

[00:21:48] Paddy Steinfort: it can be used against you sometimes. Yeah. We 

[00:21:49] Kevin Pillar: feel like in this game, everything is used against us. There are always reason not to sign us, pay us, play us, whatever it might be. Right. So, you know, and I consider myself a pretty cerebral and smart guy.

So I'm like, and I like the idea of something new and gimmicks and ideas and stuff like that. So you come in and I'm like, well, what do you got from me? What are you gonna help me with? And it wasn't at that point, it's spring training. I don't have any issues. I'm back with comfortable. Right? Yeah. Thats don't really matter.

But it was more about sharpening my focus. It was about training my brain to do certain things. It was about challenging myself every single day, whether I was hitting up a T or flip, or in the cage or in bp. To focus on the things that I want to focus, to learn how to like visually get my eyes aligned, to clear, basically clear the mechanism, how to come back to a spot on my bat to bring myself back to being centered, how to get myself in the box and understand that when this foot gets in the box, I'm now present in the moment, right.

It's a lot of different things that we did, and you fast forward through baseball and baseball's at this level is so much about the ability to flush, rinse, forget, move on, not get caught up in statistics, not get caught up in that bat, not get caught up in a back call. Being able to just bring yourself back to the very present moment.

Work on the task at hand. And try to do it to the best of your ability. And I think that's a lot of things that we talked about. We worked on a lot, and for me it was just something new I wasn't afraid to try. Um. Confident in my own skin. You would admit when I'm wrong or I'm not afraid to voice my opinion when I'm opinionated about something.

So for me, seeking help never was something I was concerned about because I'm confident in my ability and I always saw it as a another notch to put on my tool belt. If I'm not as physically talented as the next person next to me, how am I gonna be able to compete? And I've been able to do it thus far by outworking and out competing and playing harder and.

For lack of better terms, when shit's on the line, just lay your sack out there and just fucking get done. You know? Yeah. That's how I've made my career is like there's been times in my career when I haven't had the mental strength to like, I need to be here, present in the moment, and flush and forget.

Like I've used some of that negative stuff in my career. Or like an over 17 where I'll just walk in the box, basically be like, fuck it, you gotta get a hit. I don't care how you do it. Just get it done. And I've been able to will myself to stuff. So for me, I got to a point where that sort of mindset and that sort of attitude and doing that every single day is a really hard thing to carry out over through 162 games a year, being an everyday player.

Where could I just simplify things a little bit and say, who gives a shit about my last 15 at bats? Let's me, let's worry about. Today's at bat, not my next step bat, but this at bat right now. Let's be able to get my brain from thinking about what if he throws a slider or what if I go for 16 to, it's your first step outta the day.

Just focus on the task at hand and really just how to simplify things like not see things. So black and white, I've learned over the course of my career to judge at bat, not necessarily by the result of did I hit the ball hard or did I get hit, or did I get out? But was I freaking present in the box?

Right? Look there with a clear mind. Did I have a plan? And these are things that we all spent a lot of time working on 

[00:25:14] Paddy Steinfort: For sure. And there were times like that we would need to reach out and you would catch yourself. You mentioned that you were very honest and it was one of the things that really helped was when you weren't present.

When you had a bad day, you were okay to say, I had a bad day. And then we could refocus and say, okay, what are we doing tomorrow to make sure that doesn't happen again? Let me ask you this about, I'll circle back to that in a second, but you mentioned the work that we did and the fact that you were able to get more present and that we, you got better at it.

Your first half of that year was significantly better than stuff that we, that you'd had in the previous few years you were flying. And then you fast forward to last year, we've had a great career season. Like a lot of the stuff that we work on and that you and I end up talking about and some of the basic tools are things that they don't really go away.

Like you can strength train and it's been a minute since I've been in the gym. I did a lot of it when I was a young man, but it's none of it's left there now. But this sort of stuff, if you learn it, would you say that some of it has stuck with you the whole way through? And also does it start to impact other areas of your life?

[00:26:17] Kevin Pillar: For sure. It definitely impacts other areas of my life. And once again, I think this whole idea of when we're talking about the brain and mental health and stuff like that, it, the best way to compare it is to what you mentioned, the strength that you would gain in the gym. Is, are you either gonna continue to work out and strengthen it or at least maintain it?

Or if you put it to side for a while, you're gonna lose all that strength. So it's just something I've just carried on throughout my career and it might not necessarily be a. Me and you interacting every single day, but it's me taking a lot of the stuff and applying it to my work. Even when I'm hitting in the cage here, like, okay, I took two bat swings.

Step outta the box, get your eyes off of something, come back to the moment, step in the box, be present in the moment. Focus on what you need to focus on. What part of the ball am I looking at? Challenge yourself to see the inside part of the ball. Judge it between one and 10. How well do you see it? And then that's it.

And then it's just transitioned into more just. For me, the way that I've been able to stay sharpened is I read about it a lot too. I read books about it, and I think the more that I do that I've been able to self-maintenance myself a lot more. Not to say that I've ever gotten to a point where I would ever get away from using someone like you.

In my life or throughout a baseball season. But I think taking the ownership of it the same way that I've taken ownership of my body and I don't need a strength and conditioning coach to push me to work out in the weight room. I've had to take it upon myself to make sure I'm saying sharp when it comes to things about my brain, and find ways to challenge myself and use all the tools and consistently tell myself how important they are and hold myself accountable to 'em because at the end of the day, anyone in trying to put it get in my position, someone trying to get to the next level of whatever they're trying to do, it's all gonna come back to holding yourself accountable. It's great to have. My strength and conditioning coach, or it's great to have you hold me accountable for things I want to do, but we're grown men, we're grownups.

At the end of the day, you gotta hold yourself accountable. There's not gonna be someone to hold your hand every step of the way. I've learned to not use you as, you know, A crutch. A crutch. 

[00:28:29] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. 

[00:28:29] Kevin Pillar: That's easy as a crutch, but I use you as a resource. you know, that happened over time. 

[00:28:35] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah, you mentioned accountability there, and it's a really key word, particularly for anyone who's trying to achieve anything great over the long term.

I can get fit in 30 days and even that's tough, but if I'm trying to stay fit and run a triathlon by the end of the season, that's gonna be really hard work and accountability is gonna be a key part to it. I gave a talk to the Stanford emergency doctors a month or two ago, right. And someone actually hit me up afterwards and sent me an email and said.

Hey, I'm trying to do this. I'm like, he's clearly really good. He's working at one of the best hospitals on the west coast. He's an emergency doctor. He is probably got his whole life laid out in front of him, but he's like, I just don't seem to be able to keep myself accountable. And he asked me like, what tricks do you have to be able to do that?

Now I have a couple of answers, but I'm interested, given that I just mentioned before, you were very good at being honest and upfront about, I didn't do that when we were talking, and you've also said you've gotta hold yourself accountable, like. How do you make sure that happens? Because we're all human and sometimes we don't necessarily, we're not as good at that as we might wanna be.

I think it's just something I've learned over the course of my career that in some degree I work for myself. Obviously an owner, a general manager, employ me of their team, but I'm only as good as I allow myself to be. I can only play this game for so long, so I have to maximize every single day of my career in order to stay in this game.

So I've learned just along the way that I don't have room to not be accountable. I've just learned that, well, the sad reality is that we are expendable, that we do have a shelf life, and if I wanna play this game for as long as possible, my accountability had to start yesterday. I have to rely on myself to get everything that I want to get outta this game.

And I think that maybe just goes, once again, goes back to just the way my parents brought me up, seeing my parents just work hard and be accountable for themself. I think them being business owners, I think there's a kind of just a sense of accountability that you learn from watching them, that theydidn't have an employer telling 'em what to do.

Everything that they've accomplished in their life is something that they built on their own. And my dad, this was a little bit later on in life that. Once his business was up and running a little bit, but my dad was still working seven days a week, but he always made time to come to our games. He never missed our games.

We were always the number one priority, but he also understood that it was his business that if he needed to work a Sunday and get up at 6:00 AM and go in and leave at one, because me and my brother had to game him two, that's what he had to do. That's all I ever knew. And even before that, he talked about laying hardwood floors on his hands and knees working seven days a week because that's what needed to be done in order to get the business running.

So I think part of it's just watching my parents and watch the success they've had. And I think it's, some of it might just be DNA. I think some of it's just inherent behavior of what I've been able to witness it in my life. And also I think just some role models that I've had growing up, like professional athletes that you hear 'em talk about that sort of stuff, and maybe you don't understand it, so you start to educate yourself on it a little bit more and then you're living it and you're like, oh, it all makes kind of sense. Now 

[00:31:37] Paddy Steinfort: I'm gonna circle back to that role model thing in a second. But you mentioned, you've mentioned your upbringing a few times now, and you're a new-ish father, and I'm curious if you fast forward, let's say 6, 7, 8 years, nine years, so that your kids are like at an age where you can really start to teach them stuff you're drilling stuff in, or when they're getting more involved in the world. What would you say is like the thing that you would be doing to make sure that you help them be accountable and not necessarily that you keep them accountable, but you are gonna help them learn those lessons?

[00:32:11] Kevin Pillar: I think there's some challenges that I'm gonna face as a parent. In regards to that stuff, because I just understand my journey and how difficult it was and how much I put into doing what I wanted to do. I think there'll be a conversation at some point with my daughter or son. They say, Hey dad, I want to do this right.

I think that's where I'll really have to sit 'em down and talk about the sacrifices, the accountability, the work ethic and stuff like that. If you really want to do it, I'm all for it. But if they're want to just play sports when they're young and kind of like what I was doing, it's gonna be hard for me not to like over coach them in a sense that.

Maybe they're just playing because they think it's fun. For me, it's like, oh, if you're playing it like you need to work hard at it, you need to do this. Obviously you want to teach your kids work ethic and [00:33:00] stuff like that too. But that it's definitely gonna be a challenge for me for to, yeah, not over coach of, allow them to be kids, almost take a step back, be on a sideline and.

Not be that crutch one and but be a resource for them. I think that's gonna be my challenge is not being the crutch. Right. And maybe overcorrect or over coach like, Hey, you didn't play very well today is 'cause you don't work at it. Right? But like, if they ask me like, Hey dad, like you were successful baseball player.

Like, how did you get there? I really like doing this. Well, okay, you need to work credit, you need to enjoy it. And you need to be accountable for yourself. If you want dad to throw you a hundred, 200 pitches in the cage, in the backyard, dad's gonna do it. But I'm not gonna ask him to do it. 

[00:33:44] Paddy Steinfort: Right. 

[00:33:45] Kevin Pillar: Well, I probably will ask him to do it, but I don't want to do it.

That's gonna be the challenge is I'm gonna want them to do those things, but I don't wanna force him to do things. Right. I to come to me, and I think that's what my parents did a really good job of is they introduced us to all the sports. I don't think anyone really actually remembers like being a kid and like having those conversations with my parents.

No, I think they put you in sports when you're young. Obviously we liked them, but I don't remember like asking my mom and dad to be like. Let's play football or let's play baseball, let's do this. It was just like I was playing one thing every like season, and it just, I think at some point I probably would've said like, Hey, I'm not enjoying this if I wasn't doing it.

Mm-hmm. But I just kept doing it. I played soccer, I played basketball, I played football, I played baseball, and it was like, just like this year round thing. We'd go to the lake and I had wakeboard and ski and snowboard and all this stuff. And I think at some point if I didn't like it, I would've set something.

[00:34:40] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. 

[00:34:40] Kevin Pillar: So I think just introducing my kids to it and kind of take a step back and be a resource, but not be their crutch. And as they ask questions, give them more along the way. 

[00:34:51] Paddy Steinfort: That description that you, you're describing now, I watched on Father's Day, there was a interview of Will Smith, who's big hero on that role model.

So to speak. And he spoke about him being a parent and having the same challenge. 'cause he's obviously a badass. He's achieved world domination in multiple areas. He is a freak. And he said it was really hard for him, particularly with his daughter, not to just be like, yo, I got you a hit single, now we're gonna do it again.

And you're on Jay-Z's record label and you're this and you're that. And then he said he had to shift his. Mentality around being a parent from I'm gonna help them be what I want them to be, or what they can be to a gardening approach where this seed has already decided what it's gonna be like. That seed is gonna be what it's gonna be.

It doesn't, I don't make it into a flower. It's gonna be a flower. My job as the gardener is to make sure the soil's good and water it, and just make the environment as good as possible and it'll grow the right way. And what you are talking about there sounds a lot like that. 

[00:35:49] Kevin Pillar: Yeah. We'll circle back to like what you mentioned about role models.

One, one of my biggest was Kobe Bryant. Mm-hmm. And um, you know, I just think about his life, his second act of being a dad and just all the things he was doing with his daughter basketball. And to some degree, I think his daughter was probably just born with it being his daughter. But watching it, watching her dad be so successful at it, she had a love of the game.

He encouraged her passion of it, kind of like we were saying, she was probably already gonna be a basketball player. That sea was already planted, but taking a step back and allowing her to be herself, and as she got to a certain age where she was like, Hey dad, I want more Dad. Can you push me? Then you just dive all in with your kid and you, you try to give 'em the world.

You try to give 'em everything, all the education that you learned in this game and what it takes to get to that level. So I think that's gonna be the biggest challenge as a parent is. Taking a back seat and just allowing them to be kids and doing what they want to do. But when the time's right and they ask for it to be that resource to go all in, as you said. There's some parallels there. Now, I didn't think that we would get into talking parenting in this, uh, interview, but I'm really glad it's gone here. 'cause as you're talking about that, I'm reminded of some of our early chats sitting in a dugout or a locker room standing in the outfield talking about your approach to hitting, which was a lot about waiting until you see what you want and then going for it. Right. It wasn't like, I'm gonna force myself to get a hit on this exact pitch. It was an element of I can't dictate what he gives me and whether it's gonna be the right thing, but when the right thing turns up, I'm on it. Do you see the parallels there?

[00:37:29] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. 

[00:37:30] Kevin Pillar: I mean, it's a parallel for life too. That's why baseball is such a great game because there is so many parallels to life. And just because I want a fastball doesn't mean I'm gonna get a fastball. Just because I wanted to play at UCLA doesn't mean it was gonna happen. Sometimes we get curve balls thrown in our life and you either choose to swing at 'em or you choose to let 'em go, and sometimes you chase 'em.

Sometimes you don't chase them. Sometimes you strike out, sometimes you don't. That's why baseball's so great is the parallels to life, and I think. The great thing, like you mentioned too, is whether it's in life or baseball, it's almost, I don't wanna say it's the sit back and hide in the woods and pounce when the opportunity presents its, but it's stay ready when it shows up.

Don't miss your opportunity. And I think that's kind of been the thing I've been most proud of in my baseball career is, that's kind of the mentality that I've had was. You're an underdog. No one expects anything from you, but you expect the world of yourself. We can let that be known in a very never arrogant or cocky way, but a very just confident way, but not even carry myself with this hubris or confidence.

[00:38:45] Kevin Pillar: Have this internal belief in myself. This work ethic that matches it. Like I'm not gonna walk around the clubhouse and tell people, Hey, I'm gonna get to the big leagues. I already know that inside me that it's gonna happen. 'cause I believe it and I know I'm gonna work hard or I'm gonna die trying, but I'm gonna allow my work to show people that, oh, he does believe in himself. Why would he be in the cage four hours after the game hitting if he didn't want to get there? Or he doesn't believe in himself? Or why is he playing so hard? You know, if this is just for fun. It was never about fun for me. It was the moment I signed it was get to the big leagues, prove everyone wrong.

Fuck everyone. And. Do it because it's not an easy thing to do. It's you chose to go down a path that is very difficult and no one's giving you any handouts along the way. But you know that if you have a jersey and a team and a field to plan, you got an opportunity to change people's mind, change their perspective, and prove everyone wrong.

And that's what that attitude that I had up until a couple years ago and. It was something I had to relearn. Well, I had this su chip on my shoulder mentality that got me to the big leagues and kept me into the big leagues. Then you establish yourself in the big leagues and naturally that goes awaybecause no one gives a crap about your story anymore.

You made it. You proved it. You priorities change. At that point, it's not about. How I got there and that I was able to stay there. It was how do I get there and stay there to, how do I, I'm established as a major league baseball player and I can do what I've been doing and I can make a nice career. Now I want more.

I give even more. I didn't wanna just be an everyday. Center fielder, starting center fielder for the Toronto Blue Jays. I wanted to be an all star. I wanted to be a gold glove winner. I wanted to be the face of a franchise. And those are all things that never happened, but it doesn't mean I'm not gonna stop trying to do 'em.

[00:40:37] Paddy Steinfort: Right. And and you mentioned a second ago that you chose to do something difficult, right, which was just to even make it there in the first place and to stay there. But what you've described there is like continuously choosing to do something difficult and. In relation to you saying it's not like hiding in the woods and then pouncing.

It's being able to stand in the fire, stand in the hitter's box, so to speak, and it's uncomfortable, right? You don't ever get up there and feel like, oh, this is great. I feel like I'm relaxing on the beach. That's uncomfortable, and being able to stand in the discomfort with stillness and presence, and then when the thing turns up, you go, you're not hiding.

You're just standing in an uncomfortable respect. 

[00:41:15] Kevin Pillar: Yeah, I think that's a big thing. It's not about hiding because it would've been easy for me to. Hide for a lack of better term. When I signed, and I wasn't playing every single day in short season as a 22-year-old when everyone else on my team was 18, it was just put your head down, go to work, and be ready for when your opportunity presents.

I don't know when it's coming. I don't know when they're gonna write my name in the lineup cart, but I promise you I'm gonna be ready for it. And that doesn't mean I was gonna go out and get four hits every single. Time I was gonna be in the lineup, but I was gonna be prepared to give the best at bat I can give to go out, run the bases hard, play with my hair on fire and just earn the respect of my coaches that I kind of learned this early on in, in professional baseball when maybe it was, a lot of it was to do with the chip on my shoulder. A lot of it was me trying to prove the world wrong, but I also understood that I was playing with a lot of younger guys, some of these guys that signed for a lot of money and they showed up to the park, do it with certain attitudes or.

It just didn't have this respect for authority or, I think organizations and coaches are smart enough to understand people that they can rely on, and it's not me kissing ass, it was just, it was a guy who was gonna show up on time. If there was a dress code, I was gonna hold the dress code. A guy that was gonna get his work in a guy that wasn't gonna have to be told to go shag flyballs during pp.

I think over the course of time, that sort of stuff just gave me a leg up where. Oh, let's write a lineup card. Oh, I don't know what I'm gonna get from Jimmy. I don't know what I'm gonna get from Tommy, but oh, if we put Kevin in there, at the very least we know he is gonna give us good at bats. He's gonna play hard, right?

So that kind of just opened the opportunity for me to get more at bats, more playing time, and then really just showcase my talent. 

[00:43:02] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah, and that was one of the things that we would talk about often is having a set of non-negotiables where it's like, regardless of how I feel, regardless of whether the coach writes me or not, what the game's given me, like the game doesn't give a shit how you feel.

It cares about what you do and what you give. And that's, you're able to turn up consistently and say, here's what I do and here's what I'm gonna do, regardless of what's going on. And I think that's a, for you, I dunno if I've ever said this direct to you actually. 'cause we've worked together so. That's an admirable, trite, and a rare one as well at times, 

[00:43:30] Kevin Pillar: when we talked about doing this, there was a couple things I wanted to mention in regards to this topic, but one of which, touching on one of the topics I mentioned about how my perspective and my things changed from being a guy that had to prove everything wrong to let's just set the bar really high for myself and try to reach these maybe unrealistic goals to somewhere where I'm at right now as a seven year veteran where.

I don't really care about the things that people say about me on Twitter. I'm not out there trying to perform to anyone else's expectations about my own, but I still fight the anxieties and pressures, but these are only the pressures that I put on myself because this is how I take care of my family, and those are never gonna go away to some degree.

I think if you don't have those feelings, then. Either you're not human or, 

[00:44:20] Paddy Steinfort: or you don't care. 

[00:44:22] Kevin Pillar: You just don't care. So for, like you said, the people that are gonna be listening to this, whether you're a 22-year-old trying to, you know, move up in the ranks in the military, you are a businessman trying to do the best for his family.

I think that's something that I. People need to understand that these are things that just never go away. It's just we learn how to deal with them, maybe set 'em aside because I still feel the anxiety and pressure every single day I step on the field because one, I'm trying to reach these potentially unreachable goals that I've set for myself.

And I think me and you have talked about. Rather than setting a bar, we set a range of goals. That way we don't feel like we've never reached our goal. If we reach the very bottom, we still know we have a top. There's more to gain, but at least we feel accomplished that we reach something. So I think that's something I learned from you was setting a range of goals. Like every year I say, Hey, I want to hit between 15 and 45 home runs, and if last year I hit 20, so like I feel accomplished, like yeah, I reached my goal, but shit, I didn't reach my ultimate goal, so let's continue to work harder. Right? Yeah. But I think it's just important to people to understand that it's good for me to talk to someone like you because all the stress and anxiety that I put on myself now in my career is not driven by external stuff. I could get two fucks if I strike out three times in a game because it's baseball and it's really frigging hard to do, and usually the guy on the mound is probably better than I am and that shit's gonna happen.

The pressure I put on myself is. I just wanna be able to play this game as long as I can. I wanna perform at a high level. I want my family to be proud of me. I carry an army of people that root for me being one of the only kids to make it outta my area to the big leagues. And it's fun. It's an honor.

It's an honor to be that guy. But there are some stresses and anxieties that come with it because you do feel like there's so many people that almost living and dying with. All your successes and your failures in this game. And I've gotten better at saying I don't give a shit even about my parents. If I strike out three times and my dad's gonna call me and be like, oh, what a tough day at the yard.

Be like, yeah, you can only imagine. Try stepping in my shoes. Stop really trying to like let like please people, but really just be satisfied with myself and take care of my family. And I think trying to dumb it down to the simplest terms of. What we've mentioned is you're not always gonna get the results, but I think if you can focus on the things that you can control, which are like being able to focus in on what you want to focus on, have a plan, have a set goal.

Did I do all my prep work the day before? Whether it was physically, mentally, video, did I check all those boxes? And sometimes it's just not gonna go your way. Sometimes you're gonna make out, sometimes you're gonna go through these extended periods of times where you're not performing. At the level that you want to perform at.

[00:47:10] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. I I couldn't have put it better myself. Man, you're a living, paragon is the word that popped into my head. But I can just say example. You walk the talk. I wanna ask you one last, 

[00:47:21] Kevin Pillar: I, I think a funny, quick, funny story too, because the idea of this whole stigma around mental health is still like. Making its way through sports, like it's okay to ask for help and stuff, but it started happening.

And some of my friends, now that I play with the Giants and some of the guys that are closer to me, like, well text me now too, and there'd be times after really tough games rather than me like throwing shit or cussing or stuff. I would guys would just see me in my locker. I'd be sitting there, they'd be like, what's wrong?

And I'd be like, I'm just sad. Like, it's like a, I wouldn't say it's a joke, but it was like my way of like maybe even dumbing it down the fact that we are human beings and we do get emotional over this game. And it's not like I wasn't having a mental breakdown because I went over for four, but like I'm a human being and it's okay to be sad.

So it started out as a joke and then people would start to like. Someone would strike out in a big situation. They come sit back to me in the dugout instead of losing their shit. He would just, they would just look at me and be like, you know what? I'm sad. I'd be like, it's okay to be sad, like, like we're human.

[00:48:19] Paddy Steinfort: One. One last question for you, man. I know you've gotta go. You mentioned having role models. When you think about your time in baseball, it's been a long trip so far and hopefully many more years to come, and you think of toughness, who's the player or coach that pops in your mind where you're like, they are the toughest motherfucker because? And why do they stand after … and Toughness? 

[00:48:38] Kevin Pillar: I, I, I've been fortunate to play with a lot of really good players, and obviously a lot of those guys are super talented. But the one thing that I always admired about some of these guys, and I'll just name a couple of 'em, Donaldson and Edwin and Colonel Seal come to mind, is they were just always so confident in their ability, and Josh did it in a different way than Eddie Josh would come in and tell everyone like, I'm fucking due. I'm one swing away from getting out of this, or. Don't miss this at bat today. And even if he struck out, he'd come back with the same attitude like, oh, I just missed it. I'm going deep the next at bat. And more times than not, like it might not have been that, that bad or that game, but like it'd be three days later and he'd be like, holy shit.

He called it right. And it was just this self-belief he had in himself. And then someone like Edwin and Carone just was always just even keel that you could never tell when he was, I. Going really good or really bad. He just believed in himself and it was a very quiet belief. He just put his head down, he'd go do his video work, he'd go to the cage, he'd take his bp, he'd do his homework, and you just never know.

And I think my experience of playing with really, really good players like Hall of Fame caliber baseball players, players in my skill level that are right in the middle is. I've gotten better over my course of my career, but I look back on the early years of my career and I was a damn rollercoaster, and I always understood that I would never get too high even when I was successful.

Even later in my career, I've learned to enjoy it more because I. This game is so hard and you don't have that much success all the time. When you do something great to enjoy it, people would always be like, oh, you made, you brought that Homer in your stoic. I'm like, why? I expect to do it. That's my job. I always felt like I'm just doing my job.

I'm just doing my job. Later in my career, I've learned to enjoy it because I'm not gonna be able to do it forever. But I never got too high because I always felt like baseball had a, a way of humbling you really quick. But it was hard for me not to get so low. I would go over a series and I'd be walking home and I'd be like, am I ever gonna get a fucking hit?

I'm gonna quit. I fucking hate baseball and talk. My wife's talking me off the edge. Let's add my shit up and go home. I stink. I've gotten better at that, but I've learned over the course of watching. The really good guys in their career is nothing phases them. They're just, whether you're very openly confident like a Donaldson or you're a very quiet, confident person like Edwin and Con.

The reason they're so good is they're just so damn confident in themselves and they understand that baseball's so cynical. There's ups and downs that you just gotta kind of ride the waves. And I've just ride the wave parts of my career to just enjoy, like not get overconfident and swing my shirt around my head when I hit a walk off Homer or do something great, but like just really sit back and just be ha like happy.

I had some really good moments last year with San Francisco and it was my first time in my life I had to drive home. I would drive home 30 minutes and I'd talk to my family and some friends and stuff, and there'd be, a lot of times I'd just sit there in my car whether I had a really bad game and I'd be like, you know what?

It's okay, I'm gonna get 'em tomorrow. And there'd be times where I'd get out in on the highway and there'd be no one on there. And I'd be hitting my horn like, fuck yeah, that was awesome. That was so much fun today. But then you wake up in the morning and you just have to have this, you just have to have this, you know?

And I Kobe that mom mentality, like, enjoy it. But then tomorrow's a new day, tomorrow's a mystery. You don't know what's gonna happen. Like just turn the page. It's good to ride the momentum of something good into the field, but don't let it get bit good than yourself or allow you to think that, just 'cause I was successful yesterday, I'm gonna be successful tomorrow.

But that's equally as important as when you're not going well, to not, you know, drag your head into the field like I sunk yesterday. I mean, I'm gonna stink today. No, like it was one day. It was one five at bats, four at bats. Like you have to believe in yourself regardless of the highs or lows of this game.

And that's like the parallel to life too. 

[00:52:24] Paddy Steinfort: For sure. You said ride the wave. And I, uh, there's a saying that I often use with guys that you can't stop the waves, but you can learn how to surf. Yeah. And then that means like when things are good, you can be up there and when they're not and you're down in the bottom, you just gotta paddle and you get another wave soon.

I love it. So. All right man, well enjoy that time with your family and I'll see you up in Fenway. 

[00:52:43] Kevin Pillar: All right. See you soon. Appreciate. Bye brother.