How ANGER and REJECTION Launched Comedian Ronny Chieng to The Daily Show

 

He BOMBED so badly the crowd stopped listening…

Then he slept on a table in the green room.

Before The Daily Show. Before Netflix specials. Before the savage roasts…

Ronny Chieng was just a law student trying to get stage time in front of hostile crowds that didn’t even want comedy. He bombed. He got booed.

But the pressure never broke him. It sharpened him.

In this episode, Ronny shares what it’s really like to build a career in stand-up as the perpetual outsider. From growing up as the “foreign kid” in multiple countries, to betting it all on an American comedy dream, this one’s a masterclass in emotional control, self-belief, and using rage as rocket fuel.

We covered:

• Why Ronny says he got funny out of anger.
• The brutal bombing story that became a turning point in his toughness.
• What it’s like auditioning for The Daily Show when your entire career is on the line.

The outsider mindset that gave Ronny his edge on stage and in life

Connect with Ronny:
🌐 Website: https://www.ronnychieng.com/
✖️X (Twitter): https://x.com/ronnychieng
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ronnychieng

Follow Paddy for more:
🌐 Website: https://www.toughness.com
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/paddysgram/
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paddysteinfort/
✖️ X (Twitter): https://x.com/Paddys_posts

TRANSCRIPTION

[00:00:00]  Ronny Chieng: A tough comedian would be someone who genuinely can take the punches and keep going. 

Okay, one? Worst race, two, three. If you said anything, you are the worst 10% of your race. 

A lot of what you do in live performance is about feeling the energy. You can feel the energy of the crowd, and you can feel the energy of situations when you're dealing with other human beings.

And part of being a tougher comedian, as you said, and being a great comedian, is understanding what energy is happening and either adapting to it or not being anxious about it. Being professional is knowing you had a bad gig and not being emotionally affected by it. 

[00:00:49] Paddy Steinfort: Welcome to the Toughness podcast. My name's Paddy Steinfort, your host. We're in for a fun episode today, or better be fun because we've got our first comedian on as a guest. We got Ronny Chieng from, most of you would know him as a regular on the Daily Show with Trevor Noah, but he has starred around the world, sold out his own show.

He is got his own Netflix special starred in a blockbuster movie, Crazy Rich Asians. Welcome to the show, Ronny Chieng. 

[00:01:15]  Ronny Chieng: Thanks for having me, Paddy. Good to see you again, man. Haven't seen you in a while. 

[00:01:19] Paddy Steinfort: It has, it has been a while. You've been busy blowing it up all over the world. I've been busy follow following sports teams around, but yeah, we met the first time in a, a comedy club in New York City where you were applying your trade and I happened to get there late enough that I was stuck in the front row and on a date might have been first or second date with this girl and you, just me to shreds because you asked around the crowd and you're like, Hey, who's from where? I was from Melbourne and off you went. 

[00:01:45] Ronny Chieng: Really? I don't even remember that, man. I, we have very different, we have different recollections of that night. What's your, I don't remember what's yours? I don't, mine was, I was doing a show and then I guess it came up that you are from Australia and I said I was from Australia and I don't think you believed me. And I was trying to prove that I was how Australian I was.

And the thing in New York is whenever I meet Australians it, I'm always like. I dunno. I always, I always try to like connect with them a little bit more because I did live in Australia for 10 years. I went to law school in Australia. My wife is Australian, so I actually know more about Australia than they think because of, you know, how I sound and how I look like deep cuts, Australian deep cuts.

Like I know, I know Melbourne suburbs, I know where to get. I've toured around Australia, I've tour a country, towns like all around the co, everywhere around Australia, around the coast, like 360 degrees around Australia. 

[00:02:42] Paddy Steinfort: As you were coming up as a comedian, you mean you were like shows and stuff? 

[00:02:45] Ronny Chieng: So whenever I see Australians in New York, I'm always trying to connect to them and to connect with people who in Australia, I wouldn't even look twice on, on the street if they said hi to me. I'm like, I don't, I don't care about you. But in New York it's like, yeah, we're friends, we should be friends. 

[00:03:00] Paddy Steinfort: Facts. Well like a, uh, I like to say to people that like a little immigrant community in New York, it's not, but it kind of is in the sense that like, it's a little, it's a little community and you're probably right now you're saying that about the show, Mike. I do remember you saying you are from Australia. And I was like nah, dunno. You haven't got the accent. Yeah. 

[00:03:10] Ronny Chieng: Plus I look, I I I'm not white. You're like, who the, the hell is this? Exactly. Yeah. And I remember you saying that you were like a pro athlete. I can't remember if you came up before or during the show or after the show 'cause you came to hang out because you said..

[00:03:30] Paddy Steinfort: What do you do for a living? Oh, I told you and off we went. 

[00:03:34] Ronny Chieng:That's what it is. That's what it is. Because, because I really have. Genuine respect for any professional athlete of any sport. So if someone says they're a professional athlete, immediately I'm like, oh, I, I wanna know more. I wanna know, you know, what sport you played, how long you played it, and this is in the middle of a show, you know?

And then you are talking about playing AFL and you are probably, you are like you, you don't know the teams. And I'm like, you don't even know, man. You don't even know how much I know about Australian rules football. I think you'll probably, probably wait something like that. 

[00:04:03] Paddy Steinfort: You were born in Malaysia and then you spent some of your childhood in Manchester, New Hampshire, where Yeah, in a different period.

We might have crossed paths because I worked for, well man, what was it? New Hampshire Fisher Cats is the double A baseball team there. They're like the Toronto Blue Jays second level. Oh, you worked there. That's cool. That That was my first, that was my first baseball field. And so like grow, going through all of those moves as a kid.

Right. There's that. Then there's Manchester, New Hampshire, then there's, then there's Singapore, Melbourne, then there's Singapore, and then there's, there's Melbourne, Australia. Then there's New York. Yeah. New York. 

[00:04:45] Ronny Chieng: Yeah. Like those, those moves, some of which I'm assuming weren't your choice. How tough were they to process and did they actually help you? Like did some of that learn how to swim on the. What effect did that have on you as you grew up? 

Yeah, I, that's a good point. I guess, yeah, moving as a kid it was tough. It was tough because it was always the foreigner. Always the foreigner. You, because, and even now it, but even now, that's still the case.

I'm always the foreigner no matter where I go. But as a kid, you know, it's, it's tougher 'cause you don't know how to deal with it. So like in America or in in Australia, I'm considered like, you talking to me right now, you are like, man, this is one of the most Chinese guys I know. You know, the way you talk and the way you, the way you think.

But in, in, believe it or not, in Malaysia and Singapore, I'm like the whitest guy in, they consider me as a foreigner there. You know? So always, always the foreigner. And I think that that kind of, yeah, it kind of makes you. It either breaks you or it, it, it kind of hardens you a little bit into I'm never gonna belong anyway, so whatever.

Just be yourself, you know? Or it makes you kind of assimilate. Like, I have to be as similar to the people around me as possible, as quickly as possible. Which was, I guess as a kid that was kind of what it was. But by the time I got to Australia for university, it was very much like, like, fuck all of you. Like this is, you know. 

[00:06:01] Paddy Steinfort: Oh, I was gonna say, that's not like how you got funny. Like some people make jokes to fit in. 

[00:06:03] Ronny Chieng: Yeah, I don't think so. I think mine was outta anger. Mine was always anger. Yeah. Mine was, mine was joking out, anger. It was insulting people and like roasting people and like pointing out stupidity or things where I'm like, you guys do it like this.

This is the dumbest way. You know, I think my first couple years at University of Melbourne, I think I was very much like trying to assimilate into Australia. And then that quickly was like, yeah, this is dumb. Like, not like the, the idea of assimilating was dumb. Not the university or the country or the people.

I'm just saying the idea of like trying to get these people to like you by being good, trying to show them no, by trying to show them how similar you could be to them is just, and then I think that slowly developed into this mental toughness of like, I don't need to adapt to society. And then that's how you become the joker, right?

As in the joker from the movie, you become this crazy, you become this crazy villain. So yeah, that's, I think, yeah, I never connected to that. But yeah, I think there is a element of moving around and being forced to. Assimilate and then realizing that you can be your own person is fine. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I think a lot of that is even if you didn't move around, I feel like a lot of people will kind of find themselves in their thirties anyway.

You know? So I don't think, I'm not trying to say like it's anything special, you know, that's just my particular journey towards finding yourself. But you could be Australia your whole life and then find yourself when you're 30. Yeah. You know, Australia, even if you're a white Australian guy, there's plenty of subcultures already, you know what I mean?

Like country, the like maybe you come from Wollongong and then you move to Melbourne City and then you fall in with hipsters and then you decide hipsters are lame and then you become your own person. You know, there's, you can do that even without leaving your country. 

[00:07:48] Paddy Steinfort: For sure. For sure. You, you mentioned two types of adaptability there that I think are really important, and particularly for some of the people who listen, who might be forced to move for their jobs.

Whether it's their jobs or whether their parents are moving or their family's moving, is the, the adapting to different circumstances. So like, all right, I'm in a new country and how am I gonna get along here? And I find, you know, you, you moved to New York City, I've moved to New York City. That's a whole experience in itself, right?

Just trying to where's the shit apartments? Which landlords are gonna screw me? How? What's that check? What the hell? Exactly. What the hell is this Pick for checks? It's ridiculous. New York City. Yeah. And so there's all these things that you adapt to from a logistical point of view, but the initial impulse, and this is a great point that you made, is that it doesn't necessarily happen just from moving when you go to a new high school or when you go to your first college class.

Like some people adapt by changing their personality or by trying to act a certain way. And that's what you've described a second ago, I heard anyway, was you learn not to adapt yourself. You just worked out that this is who I am and I'm gonna be this and everything else will work out. 

[00:08:58] Ronny Chieng: Yeah. Be yourself and, and, and obviously adapt yourself to the situation.

Yeah. But you don't have to change who you are intrinsically, if that makes sense. 

[00:09:02] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's, that's a good point and I'm glad I circled back on that question. That was, that was a good, particularly relevant to Army personnel and their families and et cetera, who all have to travel and change cities every two years. It's brutal for some of those people here. 

[00:09:06] Ronny Chieng: Here's how I look at it. I know I just sound very negative about Australia, right then about, you know, I don't have to change for, and I never felt the need to assimilate, have Australian accent or whatever. But the honest truth is if you ask me where I feel at home, I feel at home, everywhere.

I really feel at home in Australia. I feel at home in Singapore. I feel at home in Melbourne. I feel at home in New York City. So the kind of fuck you attitude I was describing before doesn't come at the expense of actually getting to know the place you're in and loving it and finding the joy in the local stuff and not just moving to Australia and just eating Singaporean food, like actually loving Australian meat pies and watching a FL and, but just not feeling the need to like change the way I talk or how I think or whatever.

So, you know, I, I guess what I'm saying for people who are moving around a lot, I would say there is a lot of it is you can get a lot out of. Ingraining yourself into that local country, you know, and make it actually a part of you as opposed to being like, screw this place. I am who I am. I'm American, I'm Australian.

I don't wanna be Lebanese. You know, I don't care, but I'm stationed in Beirut. But you know, there's something really cool when you meet people. Isn't that the coolest part? When they'll, that's why I was trying to connect to you, 'cause you didn't expect me to be Australian, but I uhhuh I know a lot about Australia.

Cause I freaking came up here and when I was trying to connect with you about Australia, it was coming from a lot of love. You know? It was like, yeah, man, the, you know, I'm, I'm, I lived in Colton for 10 years. I support the Colton Blues. Like whatever it is, you know. So what I'm saying is that you can be yourself, but also there's a lot to be gained from knowing.

The country that you are based in as well. When you move, you know, like finding the, the joys in that country and, and it, it carries with you, it, it carries with you wherever you go, even if you don't see it. Then when I moved, I hated it, but when I, when I left, I was like, man, there was it, there was so much from there that I carry with me.

You know, the food, the, the knowledge of the cuisine, the, when I meet other people from there, you connect with them, you know? And so, yeah, I would say don't, you know, don't, it's a very nuanced point, but I wasn't trying to say, you know, screw the place, be yourself. I was, I was trying to say, you don't have to change yourself to enjoy, to be at home in a, in any location.

[00:11:27] Paddy Steinfort: But part of the fascination for me, particularly once I learned a little more about how you'd ended up in New York and what you were doing and what you've gone on to do, which is as I listed there a bunch of different things. Success on a global scale. The journey. It's not like you just blew up overnight though, right?

Like when was your first ever comedy set back in Australia is where you started, right? You went to the same universities. Me. University of Melbourne. 

[00:11:51] Ronny Chieng: Oh, you're in Melbourne Uni boy. Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm Melbourne Uni boy. That probably came up as well. That's why we connected. Yeah. Melbourne Uni guy. And my first comedy set was at Melbourne Uni, so there you go.

Right. Like 2000, what year we talking there? March, 2009. So not that long ago. Right. Uh, so you very much a baby in comedy terms. And I did that set, it was the uni, it was actually the Melbourne Uni, like campus comedy competition. And I, I did it and I, I actually, I actually won that competition and, and then I.

I dunno. I just got the bug for it. And then I started doing gigs in Melbourne City, just around town. And my whole thing, my whole mindset was when I was doing gigs was I wanted to perform to complete strangers. So I, I didn't want my friends right from, almost from day one. After that first gig, which was the university campus comedy competition, I did invite friends.

But after that first gig, my whole thing was I never wanted to just perform to friends. I didn't wanna open a shop that only sold to people I knew, you know, I wanted to perform to people who had no idea who I was. 

[00:12:56] Paddy Steinfort: So, so you were doing it in secret, like you were, like, you were a, a student, my man and student by day, and you would sneak off and do a comedy gig at night?

[00:13:05] Ronny Chieng:  I mean, I, I don't think I was doing it secretly. I mean, I think I was just doing it, but essentially, yeah, I mean, that's all. Comics will have, you know, their daytime life and then all the gigs are at night. So I guess in a way, what you're saying is accurate, but it, I definitely wasn't like secretly, I just didn't make a big deal about it.

I just wanted to build up the skillset. I wanted to build up the skillset more than talk about doing it, you know what I mean? Rather than just like, oh, doing standup now. I wanted to actually get good at it and perform and see if I could do it to people who had no emotional investment in my wellbeing at all.

You know, as opposed to friends who are there to support you. I wanted to be able to kind of make strangers laugh, basically. 

[00:13:46] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, and like the reason I, when this podcast was first birthed as an idea and then it has really snowballed. The reason I thought it would be really cool to talk to you, not only because of Europe.

Very interesting journey. Um, but specifically because this career is a very tough one, right? It's a toughness podcast, but this isn't your typical type of, you know, gr your teeth and get strong or be an athlete and come back from injury. Like you put yourself out there on the daily, and I don't mean just a daily show, but literally like every day that you perform, you go up there and the number one fear in the world of human beings is public speaking.

So first of all, you're not even like, that's pretty tough to just do that in itself. But not only that, you've got that extra weight of, hey, while you're doing it, make me laugh. Funny guy. And yeah, you do that every single day for a living. Like at what point did you, did it go from being like, oh, that looks cool.

Like I kind of did that thing and I won the competition, I'm gonna like enjoy this. And then like when did it get hard for you? Or did it ever? 

[00:14:36] Ronny Chieng: Uh, first of all, I wanna say this is, that's a very interesting angle for discussion 'cause no one's ever kind of approached me to talk about it from that angle, which is why I want, I felt interested to do this podcast.

And secondly, I also wanna make clear that like. Yeah, standup is tough, but I also feel like everyone's job is tough. So I I, and I mean that sincerely. I think there's lots of tough way tougher jobs, way higher stakes. I don't wanna put on a pedestal like that. I do agree that there are elements of Yeah.

Mental toughness that you have to build to do this job right. For many reasons. You know, I think just going on stage and then also dealing with the fact that this is the kind of job that doesn't, is most likely not gonna pay well, you know, unless you're very lucky and you get good opportunities and you're really good at it.

And so being able to deal with even that side, you know, just the, the, the toughness to continue in a profession that is kind of weird and might not have a financial payoff and the pressures that society might put on you. So there's that tho both sides of the right. Mm-hmm. On stage and off stage toughness, you need to answer your question.

Was it ever tough? It's always tough, you know, I always. I still find it hard. It's definitely gotten easier over the years, but there's still a degree of difficulty. I don't think anyone kind of goes on stage without that adrenaline rush or that the ideal that this is gonna be hard because that makes you kind of prepare for it, right?

If you, if you go on thinking, ah, this is gonna be easier, I don't need to prepare, then I, I feel like for, in my case, I feel like you just kind of take the audience for granted and then you become, be indulgent. So I think the feeling of difficulty is what makes you prepare and take it seriously. And I, I think your question was, did I ever find it hard? Yeah. I remember the..

[00:16:29] Paddy Steinfort: Right, when did it go, when did it go from being like, oh, that's cool. I did this thing that I wanted to do and I was good at it to shit. This is actually like, I'm. It was just tough. Like it's not, it's not just it tough. It was always, it was always tough from the, even the first one, 

[00:16:43] Ronny Chieng: oh, first one was, was, was probably the toughest.

The first one was the toughest and it's kind of like, uh, uh, I would say like it's got just like everything. It's got ups and downs. So the first one was extremely tough 'cause you've never been on stage before. You know where you're doing. I remember kind of the whole, my whole day was a write off. The weeks leading up to, it was like a write off, just thinking about this five minutes I had to perform for the first time.

Um, you know, just at home I couldn't do anything. I was just trying to practice the thing and I was like, whoa, what's gonna happen? You know? So extremely anxious that before that first time. And then you do a good gig, you get a bit of confidence and then you know, the next one you're like, okay, I think.

What I did before work, I'll just do it again. And then that gives you confidence. And then inevitably you'll have a bad gig, even though you did everything the exact same way. You some, you know, there'll be some other variable that goes wrong and you'll have a bad gig, and then that will bring your confidence back down and then that kind of makes you go up, man, I need to get better at this.

So it's always ups and downs, ups and downs. It's, it's, it's very, um, yeah, comedy is very standup. Comedy is very much just when you think you got it and you got it made and you have all the answers, and then the next gig will be the one that you kind of have a bad game. I always liken it to sports a lot, which I think you'll appreciate, which is like, you pass a certain level of, when you're a professional athlete, you are training and you are consistent and you have more good games than bad games.

But occasionally you just have a bad game and there's, there's nothing you can do about it because. There's so many variables in life performing, you know, the lighting, the the stage, the audience members, the makeup of the audience. Like imagine just one variable, let's just say lighting. I put it to you that doing a standup gig in a corporate boardroom under fluorescent lights with no stage will give you a very different vibe to a comedy club, especially the comedy cellar where small, intimate, low ceiling, dark, everyone's in the mood for it.

So what my point to that is just imagine that the different energy in those two rooms, but you're doing the exact same material. It could even be the exact same crowd, but just the time of day plus the fluorescent lights, changes the whole vibe and it, you could kill it at the comedy cell and then you go to this fluorescent lit corporate boardroom and it doesn't work.

Yeah, and again, my point to all that is that that one little variable changes everything. So when you're doing a comedy set, whatever the variable is in the room that changes, you might have a bad gig and part of the mental toughness aspect is like knowing that you did the work and that you've done this set nine times outta 10 and it works, and then this one time it didn't work, and you don't beat yourself up over it, you know?

And you go, okay, this is just one bad game. Let, let's, let's play another game. Let's see if I still have this, you know? Mm-hmm. And that's a, that's a kind of a delicate balance between believing in yourself but also not being. Being self-aware about whether your material is working right, because you, you know, become the guy who's like, nah, it's you guys.

You guys suck. It's the variables. Everything in this room suck. I was great. And everything's, and that's the, you know, that's the recipe for disaster. Once you, once you think you're the best, and that every time, anything, if you're doing standup and no one's laughing, it's everyone else's fault. That's like a recipe for disaster.

So you have to balance that with like, the confidence of knowing, like, yeah, you know what, this show was a write off. Like, I, there's nothing I could have done. You just take that as a learning experience and feel free to interrupt any time because I, I talk about this all the time. I love it. I love it.

 

[00:20:12] Paddy Steinfort: Like this is, this is what happens. So I was talking with a couple of people who do my, for the special operations community in the Army literally two days ago on a Zoom about their model for helping guys prepare for, and girls prepare for that level of. Of stress in their job. Right? They're training people to go out and be badass killers or defend lives, right?

So sometimes some people might say it's more serious than what you and I do, but the levels of stress that are induced physically are similar. And so I was saying on that call that we end up just rolling. So don't stress about, I'm gonna let you roll until I wanna jump in. And here is a point I'm gonna jump in on is, is a question of like, of all those things you listed there, you said your ability to put in the work and be prepared, your ability to have confidence as a result of, like, I've done this before.

[Yeah. Your ability to accept the things that are outta your control, but also be self aware that if it is you screwing up and take some responsibility, there's all these different things, right? 

[00:21:09] Ronny Chieng: Yeah. 

[00:21:10] Paddy Steinfort: What are the key things that make. For a tough comedian, which usually I assume would lead to a successful comedian over time. Right? 

[00:21:13] Ronny Chieng: That's a great question. I think a tough comedian, you'd even say funny comedian, you say a tough comedian. A tough comedian would be someone who genuinely can take the punches and keep going. And that's such a hacky thing to say. I think it's from Rocky or something, but like, but I think a lot of people, especially now, I think that it's very easy to say, I don't care what anyone thinks.

I don't care what people think on social media. And I, I think a lot of people actually do care. You know what I mean? And I think that's their way of dealing with it. But if you're very honest with yourself, you go, look, this stuff does affect me. And if you're honest with yourself that it does affect you instead of being that, you know, that I, I feel like 90% of humans now, they're like, I don't care what anyone says on Twitter or Facebook.

And then they're the ones who are on Facebook and Twitter getting into arguments. So, so meaning like, you genuinely don't care, not just for show, but like, you can take that criticism and you can, you cannot let it affect you to a point where you can't perform. Right. I, I think someone told me a sound guy at the Comedy store, Phil, the comedy store in Sydney.

He gave me the best advice once when I was, he wasn't even a comedian. He, he told, he was a musician and he told me, like when I was starting out, he said like, being professional is. Knowing you had a bad gig and not being emotionally affected by it. Right? Because once you stop beating yourself up too much over it, and I think with comics it's very easy to get into your own head with having a bad gig.

Once that happens, that's when, that's like you can't improve it. It impedes performance. Right? So you got, the way you use, the way you take back shows and actually make use them to make yourself better is you can't let yourself get emotionally affected by a bad gig. Which again, that's a skill, right?

That's a skill you build. It's easier said than done. Very easy to say, don't worry about these people. Don't, don't worry about this show. Right? Right. Right's, that's very easy to say, but actually do it. That's a skill that you have to..

[00:23:16] Paddy Steinfort: And it's easy to say when you're sitting in your living room, like talking on Zoom, right? Like talk to me about, share with us the either you got two choices so you can talk about the first time you bombed. Or the worst time you bombed, gimme one of those. 

[00:21:23] Ronny Chieng: I mean, man, I bombed all the time. I had, [00:23:30] I can't even remember the number of times I bombed. I mean, the one, whenever I get asked this question interviews, which is all the time, the one I always bring up was, uh, I thought it was a good question.

[00:23:37] Paddy Steinfort:  It is a good question for this podcast, but I mean, I, that's one of the reasons I don't do podcasts. I keep ask, getting asked the same questions over and over again. But um, yeah, the one that comes to mind is I was in Bustleton, Western Australia doing a music festival. And music festivals are tough. Like even those, even for those, for those who dunno.

Oh, busleton, Western Australia. Can we paint a picture here? 'cause this is like, I'm picturing a, like a mining town. There's just big guys. Speeds that are bigger than their heads. Well, you know, I've done, 

[00:24:12] Ronny Chieng: I've done mining towns. I've done, I've done I've done like, I've done like Dwe, uh, Alice Springs. What?

I mean, those aren't mining towns, but you know, like So what Bus Pretty Country does Buston? No, but but here's the Bustleton is a country, it's like a West Coast, beach country town, okay. So, so it's West Coast Australia, very California like, except small town. But the difference here is that it's a music festival, so you're not gonna get the.

The rough around the edges, guys, you're gonna get the hipster country guys. So it's a bunch of guys with beards who are too cool for school. And anyway, the thing about music festivals is that it's open air, it's daytime, it's not conducive for standup comedy, which you stand up comedy, you need to pay attention to, you know, music.

You can be enjoying it legitimately while still talking to friends or using your phone. But standup comedy, if you're not listening, you can't really get into it. So they put us on and. I, I did false festival, which is also a big music festival, and that went okay, you know, in, in Victoria. I, I did okay at that gig.

And then the next gig was Bustleton Outdoor Music Festival, daytime. So I go on and, you know, like I said, I've done this set. I, I practice. It's not like my first time doing this set all my first time doing comedy, so I kind of know what I'm doing for that 10 minutes. I had a set prepared that was quite suitable for this kind of environment, which is just go, go, go, go, go.

You know, we're not talking. We're not. That we're just gonna go 10 minutes and get off. And it went well. You know, I like, it was going well at other music festivals, so I do the same set. And at this particular gig, these kids, these hipster kids were like, they start going boring, boring. So I go like, you know, they're like interrupting the gig.

So I just, I, so I threatened to throw them out of the music festival, which I had no authority to do. And so I'm like telling the security guys like, Hey, these guys keep making noise. We're just gonna have to throw them out. And the security guys in, in front of the stage, were like, we're not listening to you.

You know what I mean? That their faces were like, we don't, you have absolutely no authority here to throw anyone out, but the guys in the back didn't know that. So I just kept pretending like, we're about to throw these guys our music festival because these are pretty expensive tickets. Right. And it's like a, it's like a closed off festival. 

You get thrown out, you can't come back in, so you don't, you might not wanna see me, but there's probably some bands, which you haven't come up yet. So I threatened to do that and that shut them up for a little bit. But then they kept, they, they started booing again. And so I just finished my set.

I complete, just ate shit, you know, the whole set was just like, just silence or someone booing. And then, and then I just got off. I just said, yeah, you guys have been great. And then I just got off. And then I think that night I slept on a table at the music festival and I think the security guard gave me a towel for a blanket. Yeah. So I, I slept on a, like a trostle table. Anyway, I ..

[00:26:51] Paddy Steinfort: Was that if we were doing a movie of, of Ronny Chieng's life, is that like the, the low point where it was like, I gotta do something there? 

[00:26:58] Ronny Chieng: Nah, nah, it wasn't, it was just one of those, it's, you know, you take your lick one of those times. Yeah, you take your licks.

And I think the thing I always say, which I think is relevant for this podcast is I was a lot less experienced then, and I took it. A little bit harder, but it wasn't devastating to me, but it would, I took it harder than I would now. Mm-hmm. Um, but the way I look at it is a lot of what you do in live performance is about feeling the energy.

You can feel the energy of the crowd, and you can feel the energy of situations when you're dealing with other human beings. And part of being a tougher comedian, as you said, and being a great comedian, is understanding what energy is happening and either adapting to it or not being anxious about it because you felt that energy so many times because you've done so many gigs.

Yeah, so for example, if someone's heckling in the crowd and you can feel the energy, and you can feel the energy of, okay, is this the kind of heckle, which is, you made a joke that's really funny. And they're going like, yeah, we agree with you. That kind of heckle. So he's actually agreeing with you and he's shutting up.

He's not like continuing to interrupt the show. He just had one moment of like, yeah, you are so right. You know, whatever, however that gets expressed. But the energy is he, but the energy, he's a positive. He's agreeing with you and he's gonna stop, he's gonna shut up. Mm-hmm. Positive. Even if he's positive, he, if he's interrupting the show, that's still bad.

Right? And so that's the next type of energy, which is he's positive, but he's interrupting the show. And because you felt that energy before, because you know that that energy is positive, you don't go after him. You just go, yeah, man. Yeah, look, I get it, man. Let me just, I got more jokes here. Let me just keep going.

I know you like that one. You know, you don't clash with him because you know that he's being positive. Then the third kind is the fucking, you know, he's trying to. The show. And then when that happens, you either have to go and go downstairs and fight him or you have to get security to throw him out. But part of the job is knowing what energy, because if you get someone who is just saying, yeah, that's right, and he shuts up after that, and then you go after him like he, like he insulted your mother.

Like that ruins the whole thing. And that's because you didn't know what energy he was giving. And so that's one part, identifying it. And then the second part of the energy aspect is once you've experienced almost every type of energy that's possible, you are less anxious when you see it again. Right?

Yeah. So when you experience the energy again, you're like, oh, I know what this is. I know what this is, and either I know how to deal with it, or. I know there's no solution here and you just gotta go. You take the licks and I know that at the end of this gig, everything will be okay. Yeah. No one's gonna die.

We'll live to fight another day. And so it, that experience of like even taking a punch, they're like, yeah, okay, we're gonna take this punch, but it'll be okay. You know? Yeah. It's not the end of the world. It, I know why this gig is going bad. It's not me. It's, you know..

[00:29:50] Paddy Steinfort: As you're describing that, I'm like, I'm, it, it's bringing to mind, this an analogy I often will use when I'm talking with an athlete in particular, or any other performer who's doing stuff where they might get in their own way where it's like there's an energy going on and some of it might create anxiety, but that's only bad if you then start thinking about that.

Right. And the, the analogy that I'll use it usually bring, puts a grin on at least the young athlete's face, is imagine you've just met someone at a bar and they're like a 11 outta 10, like the best looking person you've ever met. And you, you say a nice line to 'em and they've respond positively and you give them a drink and it goes well, and you go back to your place and you end up doing what adults do.

And about two minutes in, it's going great. There's energy and you're like, Hey, oh, hang on. Let's just stop. How am I doing? After two and, and the other person's like, oh yeah, well, I'm fine. Keep going. Like, this is good. So you, alright. You get back into it and then another minute goes past you, you stop again.

You're like, how is that okay? Like, does that feel good? Like the, the over analysis is actually causing the problem as opposed to just like feeling the energy and acting on it. 

[00:29:51] Ronny Chieng: Dude, you thinking about it. Were such, you're such a jock. That's your example you're gonna use for energy is hooking up, man. It works.

It it works. But that is not the example I'll have in film, but yeah, sure. Yeah, no, you, there's, you are a hundred percent right. I agree with you, but it's just hilarious. That's how you're gonna express this. I'll think of a better one. I'll think of a better, you are such a pro athlete jock that you're gonna bring this up to hooking up, but yeah, I mean, yeah, you're right.

It's the over analysis that kills you. It's the, oftentimes it's the, if you tell the crowd that they suck, that's when they, because dude, they don't know that they suck sometimes. Sometimes they're like, yeah, this is suck. The shorings cat once you call out that it sucks. Everyone's like, oh, this does suck.

And then they made aware of it and it suddenly does suck. Yeah, yeah. But that, that, that brings me to another point, which is that one of the things I did to, this isn't, I don't know if this is toughness, this is just about comedy, was I was watching a lot of comedy when I was starting out. Sorry. I was performing a lot of comedy when I was starting out, and about three years in.

I started watching it again just as a lay person. I would go to gigs where I wasn't performing. I just watch it and watching it with the crowd and then you gain, you know what it got, what it gave me was, again, I gained a lot of empathy for what it's like to be in the audience of a comedy show again, which I kind of lost by just constantly performing.

And what I got from that was like, man, people have a long day, man. People have been working all day. You don't know what's happening in their lives. They could have something at home that's horrible or something that's ongoing right now. Text messages in their phone, that's a horrible fight they're having with someone.

And they're just at a comedy show. They're there to listen to comedy, listen to you and, and so that kind of made me not only prepare better, but also have empathy for the crowd, which sounds dumb that it took me that long to realize that, but have empathy for a crowd. So instead of attacking them, you know, my style of comedy is pretty angry, but it kind of made me realize I should bring people.

Let's get angry at this thing together as opposed to me yelling at the crowd and like, you guys suck. Because like I said, people have a long day. That's why I took Umbra when you said, I went after you in the crowd. Because I kind of pride myself in when I talk to the crowd, it's never, I, I don't, I don't wanna make them feel like I'm disrespecting them or you know, making them feel like a piece of shit for coming to a show.

That I think the respect goes both ways is what I'm trying to say. Like that's, I Yeah, I know you're joking, but that's what I'm saying. 

[00:33:23] Paddy Steinfort: No, but I think like what you've just said there actually, like I'm running it back in my mind. I'm like, that's a great example of probably what I was doing, 'cause I'm on like a early date with this girl and I'm sitting in the front row and you're doing your thing.

I'm like, bro, fucking stop. Like, I don't wanna talk about me. And it all was about what was happening inside of me as opposed to what you were doing or what other people were doing. Oh, right, right. And it's, it's really interesting, like how you can get caught up in your own stuff and perceive the situation.

Yeah, yeah. Totally differently. Purely on what's happening inside you versus what's really happening on the show. Sure, sure. Yeah, 

[00:33:54] Ronny Chieng: Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:33:55] Paddy Steinfort: It actually, like your specific example though, forgetting about me being a dick in the crowd. Your specific dick. You wanna dick though?

[00:34:03] Ronny Chieng:  I don't think anyone was a dick. That's why I don't think anyone was a dick. 

[00:34:05] Paddy Steinfort: But anyway, um, the specific example you used there is what some people refer to as the experts curse in some instances. Like if, if I've been a junior soldier and I've gotten through buds in the Navy seals and then I become a trainer and I have zero empathy for what these dudes are doing going through as I'm trying to drown them, then that's actually like a problem of leadership at times.

And it's definitely a problem of humanconnection, but it often doesn't help us give ourselves compassion. Sometimes our ability to be like, Hey, remember that first time that I choked or remember that first time? Like, we're gonna jump in a second to you coming over to America. Like that's a whole level of challenge that you gave yourself.

It's not like you accidentally got shipped over here, like you chose that. And then there's opportunities and things that come up that cause what I occasionally refer to as the sweaty palms moment where there's like, you've got 10 seconds basically where you realize that, holy shit. Now you said your first step of your first gig was like a whole day, a whole week, a whole month, right.

But there's this little white blank period, like a quiet 10 seconds or five seconds or two minutes where it's like, oh shit, we're actually gonna do this. By the time you get to that, you can't, it's gonna be worse if you stop. But if you keep going, but your body knows shit's about to happen, it's like heart rates up, breathing's down, sweating a little bit. All this stuff happens. 

[00:35:27] Ronny Chieng: Yes. 

[00:35:28] Paddy Steinfort: Because your body perceives a threat. And without going into all that detail, it's that moment that often people will start to either realize, okay, I gotta do more to get ready for this. Or as you have said, as an expert learns to do, is. This stuff actually is just a sign that I'm ready and it helps me prepared. Right?

[00:35:46] Ronny Chieng: Sure. 

[00:35:47] Paddy Steinfort: But when you lose awareness of that, you start to either forget about it for yourself or for other people. Talk to us about the, the first time you experienced that over here. Was it a different level of, okay, [00:36:00] I'm now like, succeeding in Australia is, it's not easy by any means, but now I'm gonna try and cut it against the world.

So I always wanted to move to America to do comedy. Even when I was starting out in Australia, I was doing pretty okay in Australia. Like I'm just speaking objectively here. Just, just results wise. You know, I was selling out some theaters in Australia. I could, I could, I can kind of sell the theaters all around the country I think, you know, so I was at that kind of level here.

Um, I was getting on TV a little bit, you know, Australian tv, there's not a lot of opportunities, but people were always asking me to kind of guess in their shows. Actually I had a sitcom here as well, you know, in on the A, B, C in Australia. So I was doing okay here, but I always kind of wanted to go to America because that's where all my comedy heroes were.

You know, I wanted to try to get as close to them if I, to see if I could even get close to them in terms of comedic ability. 

[00:36:57] Paddy Steinfort: And obviously you grew up here a little bit as well, right? 

[00:36:59] Ronny Chieng: Manchester, New Hampshire for a little bit. Manchester, New Hampshire. Yeah, a little bit. So I always kind of wanted to go back and also bigger market.

You obviously economically, it's just a bigger market and comedy. You can make more money in America. So I always kinda want to go there and test myself, you know? And also I feel like it would have been good for my career. Mm-hmm. If, if I could have gone to America, you know? And so I was gonna move anyway.

And I think how naive I was to think of moving without any, just from scratch. Just move it. Yeah. Without any plans to start from scratch. Because I think in comedy there's a lot of. Hierarchy. And I think we all, all the good comics, pride themselves in that hierarchy of like grinding it out and getting, you know, slowly progress, get progressing through the ranks to the better and better shows.

And if you look, if you, if, if you take a step outside of that, it looks so, it's so dumb, but when you're in it, you're like, in it, you're like, yeah, I need to do this open mic so I can get onto that open mic so that I can one day hopefully get onto this show that actually has real people who wanna be here.

And so we, you play that game and sometimes you can get too caught up in it, but I'm just saying that's our world, right? So mm-hmm. I, I was there and I was lucky that I did a show with Trevor Noah. In 2013 in Montreal at just for laughs I got invited to that festival, did a show with Trevor Noah. He really liked what I was doing.

And then we didn't speak for two years because we, we just never communicated. But he remembered me and when he got the Daily Show, he asked me to audition for it. He essentially got me on the show. I mean, I auditioned for the show and I was very nervous auditioning for it. But there was also an element of like, yeah, this could definitely life changing and I, this would be my G gateway to America and all that.

But at the same time it was like, if you're not good enough, you're not good enough. You know, like I, I don't know. For me, I, I can't, I'll be disappointed, but at the same time I'm like, I, I don't wanna play on the NBA team if I'm not supposed to be there. You know? I don't know. That's just my, that's just my philosophy towards it.

So that helped me deal with the nerves, if you know what I mean, because I'm like, damn, I'm like. I have all the, I have plenty of time to prepare for this audition. The audition is you write your own segment and then you perform one of their existing segments and then you send a tape in. So that's a simple enough proposition, you know?

And I'm like, man, if I can't even write a segment, maybe I don't even deserve to be on the show. Right? So I just wrote it and, you know, I based it off some of my stand material. And I sent it in and they, they asked me for a second audition, same thing. And then the third audition was in the studio with Trevor.

We did a chemistry test and everyone was there. That was probably the most nerve wracking one. 'cause that's the first time I actually saw him. And then the e the executive producers were there, comedy central executives, cameras and shit. The whole thing. The whole, yeah. In New York it happened in new, everything was remotely done.

And that, that one was in New York. I flew to New York just to do this, you know? But again, it's like, like the prep, you know, if you're prepped and you, you like, it's, and you're, and you're playing yourself, like, how can you fuck that up? Right? So. Yeah. That's how I kind of, maybe in hindsight, maybe I was more nervous at that, maybe, I don't know if I'm painting a rosy picture, but that was definitely my mindset of like, Hey, I was happy with my audition, is what I'm trying to say.

Yeah. If I was unhappy with it, maybe I'll have more regrets, but I was like, Hey, I laid it on the line here, and if I don't get it, I can, I guess I can live with that because what, what else can I do? Right. I can't be someone else. 

[00:40:22] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. So that's, that's a key thing that like a lot of the time we will get to eventually, if we're, if I'm working with a performer as a performance coach, and often the acceptance of what's the worst thing that can happen here?

Like, I've done everything I can, and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. It's not because I'm a, that doesn't make me a less person, doesn't mean I'm a failure. It just means this one hasn't worked. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And that's like. To your equip earlier, which is accurate. Like that's fine for you and me to say, 'cause like we're not gonna die if we fuck it up.

Yeah. Some, some people do put their lives on the line, they're protecting other lives. They might be a surgeon, they could be all sorts of jobs that have bigger consequences. But often even talking with those operators, it will come down to a point of like, if you've done everything you can, it's a acceptance is the key to actually being able to be in the moment as opposed to be caught up in what happens if or have I done enough.

[00:41:18] Paddy Steinfort: Exactly. 

[00:41:18] Ronny Chieng: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, 

[00:41:19] Paddy Steinfort: yeah. No, I can get behind that. Yeah. Is there someone, so you mentioned Trevor there, who obviously you made some sort of impression on him and he gave you a great opportunity. Is he someone that you look at because of the level of success that he's achieved getting his own show with an actual name on it, you know his name on the title, but also being a, a quasi international, you know, he's, he's kind of this hybrid guy.

You, you look at him as a hero and a mentor, or is he like a more of a colleague and friend? 

[00:41:55] Ronny Chieng: Yeah, he's definitely a hero. He definitely a hero mentor. Like he's my age. I think he's maybe a few a year older, I think. And no, but I knew of him in the circuit, so I was doing the Australian Comedy Festival circuit and the Edinburgh Fringe Festival circuit in the UK.

I was doing these two circuits for three or four years, and his name would, he was doing the same circuit at the same time, but he was blowing up on that thing, you know, I was doing okay. But he was [00:42:15] like, he was the kind of guy who went to Edinburgh from South Africa. Eddie Izad was promoting him and. He would go from, literally, the story is he went from like the small, typical Edinburgh festival room 10, 20 seater, 30 seater.

And by the end of the festival, he was in the biggest venue in Edinburgh, 1,500 seats, which is unheard of. You know? So he was kind of like trailblazing. And I think with comedians, like I always say like someone, oh, Alan ha,this New York comic told me he put it the best. He said, like, standup comics, were in it for ourselves, but we in it together, you know, because stand comedy is a solo sport.

Mm-hmm. But, but you know, we, I think we, the, the guys who are good at it all relate to each other. Like there's no, I, and the way I say it is that with comedy, if you are a good comic, like there's envy, but there's no jealousy. Like there's envy. And the difference for me is like, envy is like when someone gets something good or when someone's doing something great, you are like, man, that's awesome.

I wish, I wish I could get that. You know, how, what do I have to do to get that? And as opposed to jealousy, which is like, damn, that's great. I should have gotten that. He shouldn't have gotten that. You know, I wish I got that. I wish he didn't get it. You know? And that's different, right? It's, it's like, it's conversation.

Yeah. I think so. I think the jealousy thing's very negative, right? It doesn't help anyone. I think Envys can be motivational, right? So there was, I think there was an aspect of that. You know, I, I've seen him at work. I've seen him work every day. It, he's, he's unbelievable. I've seen him, we, we taught Singapore together last year.

Singapore's my home. Like one of my hometowns. I, I lived there for 10 years. My, my parents lived there, so I kind of felt like a responsibility. I tour there myself. Sometimes I felt a responsibility to show him around his first time in Singapore. So I went to Singapore and opened for him and around, 

[00:44:04] Paddy Steinfort: Oh, if I have to, if I have to show you around, was it one of us? Yeah. 

[00:44:08] Ronny Chieng: Yeah. And I saw him in Singapore. He did two shows. And the context is he, he had, he was having a throat issue, a very serious throat issue. He couldn't talk it, it's career threatening kind of a problem. Yeah. And he's, he's under doctor's orders. You have to shut up as much as you can. So the whole time we're in Singapore, he's using sign language.

I want to eat that. You know, he's not even talking. He literally not talking. So I didn't hear him speak for the three days we were together, zero sounds and then the show starts. And the first, so he, that's the first time I hear him talk and he's talking about all this Singapore stuff, which I never heard him talk about, because he was silent and he's making local references.

He's joking about all these extremely Singaporean things and the crowd is loving it. So, you know, his ability to observe what's happening that day and make a joke about it that night, unparalleled. And then even more spectacularly, the second show, we, he did two shows that night. The second show did a completely different set, different material, 'cause he was just figuring it out in his head. 

And I was like, man, you know, I'm unbelievable. I'm like blown away by that. When you see, when you see, you know, a good sports person just play, you're like, man, that is unbelievable. You know, you try to get to that heights, you know? 

[00:45:24] Paddy Steinfort: I mentioned him partly because like everyone knows that you work with him and, and he is a very well known comedian, but also like a lot of the times, people who are getting to the level of performance that you've gotten to and some of the other people on this show in different arenas.

We'll talk about someone who's like that, like you just said. Very well, and I'm gonna butcher the line. We're in it for ourselves, but we're doing it together. Like there's a comradery that exists between elite performers because there's a shared experience that not many other people can get. Right. And I, I, I first stumbled on this by trying to work out why the athletes love military guys.

I can understand why military guys love athletes. Everyone seems to, or everyone who's in sport. Yeah. But there was this, there's, they're the only people that they, that they respect at the same level as maybe musicians. That's a good point. It's because they have this shared experience. It's very different.

Absolutely. But they're the only people who know what it's like to be at that level. Absolutely. And to deal with that sort of stuff, right? 

[00:46:02] Ronny Chieng: And, and to really to do your job for you. I can relate that back to toughness, which is Go, go ahead. I think, no, I think that helps with toughness, right? That helps you deal with situations is first of all talking to people who've experienced it.

So either you get another perspective on it that helps you deal with mental adversity or just being around people who you can talk to who either don't ask you stupid questions because they get it, or you talk about. Issues in a relevant way. So the same questions that we will get asked every single day about comedy, either when you're hanging around, people who do comedy, they don't ask you dumb questions or we'll talk about something that's in the news, but we'll talk about from like a way where we're like, oh, we know 'cause we do it.

So we got the best perspective on it. And so that helps you kind of deal with all this external noise. 'cause a lot of external noise here. You know, whether it's people who doubt your ability, whether it's people like yourself criticizing comedians on stage, you know, doing their jobs, like get on with it.

Funny man. You know? So all this external noise from people who don't get it like that can, that's mental adversity, right? Whereas when you're hanging around people who, as you said, people who are doing the same thing or people who are doing similar things, like musicians, I think musicians and comedians have that same thing as you're saying about athletes and military people.

They get it. And so we get the game, you know, we get the struggles and that's why the comedy cell is such a great place to hang out. So I don't know if you know this, but the reason. People, like people aspire to perform there and, and love hanging out there. 'cause the vibe is great. You can just sit at the table, you talk to other comedians.

Maybe your comedy hero literally walks in the door that day. Chris Rock, Seinfeld, whoever walks in the door, sits down next to Chappelle, comes in, sits down next to you. And you know, we're all peers. No one's like taking photos, no one's. It's just, it's like a country club for comedians. And I think that honestly helps you deal with diversity so much more.

Because if you don't have that community, it's not only is a lonely trade, lonely profession, uh, it's also, there's lot of cycles. It's hard to get better, but there's a lot of cycles, man. If you hang out the wrong crowd that can send you spiral, spiraling, you know, if you hang out with the crowd that I'm talking about, comedians, if you hang out with other comedians who you know psychos, then you kind of become a product of the environment, right?

If you're around people who are very angry and bitter, and who are negative. That can help a rub off on you. And then once you become angry bit ne negative, I think that affects Yeah. Performance. So, yeah..

[00:48:44] Paddy Steinfort:. I mean, it's, it's a great analogy. I hadn't, I had not thought of that. So I've been in the Comedy Cellar once, when I saw you maybe two or three other times.

I used to live around the corner from it. And every single time there were high quality acts. That's why I went as a person in the, in the audience. But there was often a surprise guest. I gotta see Louis CK while he was on quasi layaway. Sure. And, and it was just like, he just walked in. The same as you've described, it's the same as like a player coming back from suspension.

And it's like everyone just like gets around him and that's that. Right. And I hadn't ever pictured it until you've just said it like that. It's amazing. Yeah. At what point did you recognize that was an important thing for you to not only get into the community, but also as you've mentioned there, to not go off the deep end and to help you get better, 'cause you can talk about stuff and you don't have to talk about shit and do shit that don't wanna Yeah. I mean, part of the, when did that, when did you realize that. 

[00:49:38] Ronny Chieng: Yeah, like it's different in Australia. So we, I had that in Australia as well, and at that time, I've only really put into words right, five minutes ago.

That's how it is because. When I was coming up, it was about hanging around people who you could get along with. And I didn't realize, I didn't make that connection to men, like mental toughness or whatever. It was just like, some people are psychos, just like any profession, there's people you don't like, right?

That you don't wanna hang around with because of whatever reason. Either they're weirdos or they, they are too negative or whatever the reason is. Right. Of course, being weird is relative, but whatever. Like they're, you don't like them. And in comedy, everyone's a weirdo, so we attract a lot of weirdos in this industry.

So I guess right from the start, I was never someone who. To give you a bit of background, comedy can become very cliquey in terms of the rooms, so certain rooms in Australia, especially in Australia and Melbourne, but every city that's, this is why I find it funny whenever people complain about the politics of comedy, it's like every city in the world has its politics.

You know, no one is special, no city's that special. But what happens is that when you start off in a comedy room, what happens is you, you feel allegiance to that room because. It's where you started doing comedy. It's where you feel very comfortable. It's where the booker gave you opportunity. Even if the booker's a crazy person, and it's the classic, like you, you, you think that's the whole world when actually there's so many, there's a whole world out there of comedy countries and rooms, but what happens is that you get stuck into this.

You feel like a tribal allegiance to this one particular room. And so for me, I never wanted to be like that. I wanted to be able to perform in every single room. So I would go into rooms and be polite, as you should be, be respectful to the booker, be respectful to the room. Always bring your A game. But I wouldn't like become close friends and then go like, oh, this room is the best.

That room sucks. Those guys are cliquey and they pay, play politics. And they, you know, like I di I didn't wanna get involved in all that stuff. I just wanted to do comedy. So I guess I, I kind of realized from a start that you don't want to be around people being around people with a. Perspective, which I didn't like, wasn't good for you mentally.

'cause it, they, it, they start drawing you into that drama. They start making you feel like seeing enemies, which aren't there. You know? So that's my way of saying like, find the right people to hang out with. Right. Find the right environments to hang out with. I mean, I know that kind of goes against what I just said about the comedy seller 'cause that's probably a click as well.

But I guess my point is like, be, to answer your question, I was kind of aware early on that there's people with very negative mindsets. Yeah. And I didn't wanna be around that. And so make sure you hang out with people who, uh, with positive mindsets that you admire so that it helps your mental toughness, you know? Yeah, it does it help. Yeah. 

[00:52:32] Paddy Steinfort: You described there, uh, a, a couple of parts is the support, but also what you referred to earlier was the community of practice. They would say it in psychology journals is like, you can be around people who do the same stuff. You admire them as people, you get along with 'em, but you also get to learn, share experience and that normalizes some of the shit that you're going through that otherwise you'd be like. Fuck, I can't do this. 

[00:52:57] Ronny Chieng: Yeah. Am I, yeah. Am I crazy? Am I bad? Am I, am I crazy for wanting to do this? Am I bad at my job because I ate shit in this room? And then you talk to other people who are like, oh, you are crazy too.

You wanna do this too, and you figured out how to do it, and you figured out how to make money from this. Oh, damn. How can I do that? And then you, you learn from that, right? Or, and also you learn like, oh yeah, that room sucks. No. Whoever plays that eats shit. And it's, it's not you, you know, you get a little bit of perspective. For sure. Yeah. You know? 

[00:53:23] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. On the last, last thing, because we're gonna, we're gonna wrap it up soon. I, I'm having a ball, but I know you've gotta go and enjoy it. No, please. Yeah. Sydney life, which I would love to be doing. You were talking about community and support there. As we've gotten into this, and obviously one of the most important people who supports any person in a marriage is the other person. Now, you met your wife while you were doing comedy, or she knew you before comedy. 

[00:53:38] Ronny Chieng: Yeah, yeah, she is. I know I met her in law school before comedy. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. We were dating before. Yeah, we were in, um, we, we met in Melbourne Uni Law School. Shout out Melbourne Law School. Very supportive. Yeah. 

[00:53:57] Paddy Steinfort: Great. And how much or little is she involved in supporting you through like, the shit that you have to go through with, and I'm not saying it's a shit life, like it's not a bad life, but I know, I know what you're saying. Understand the grind and the, the travel and all that sort of stuff. Because the same thing happens with athletes, whether it's an Olympian or a pro sport, a college athlete, they all have to make sacrifices and they don't live a normal life. 

[00:54:18] Ronny Chieng: Right. Yeah, no, that's a great question. Yeah. No one's ever asked me then.

[00:54:26] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. What role does. And, and this is an open-ended question, I'm not trying to lead anyway. 'cause some of the partners of the pro ballers that I work with, right, are just totally like, you gotta do your thing. I don't want to even know about football. Like, I'm not even gonna go to the game. Whereas there are others who are like all about, I'm gonna get the wives together, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do that.

Right? Who, who, where on that spectrum? Does your wife sit? Is she, is she like, let you do your thing And that's her way of supporting you is like, I'm not gonna get in the way. Or she's like, I'm here for you babe. Whatever you need. 

[00:55:04] Ronny Chieng: Yeah. Wow that No one's ever asked me that before. I'm gonna try to speak as generally as possible because I don't wanna speak for her and misrepresent her.

But I think she was always supportive, obviously always supportive. You know, there's stuff which you go through that's why the community. Is ultimately the kind of the first go-to, right? Because there's stuff you go through which people can't understand unless they've done it. So she obviously understands to a point, right?

Because I can tell her about it. She's seen it with her own eyes. But unless you go through it, it's a different matter. For example, it's easy to say as outsider, like ignore the haters. But when people coming after you, it's completely a different situation. And on a small tangent, like learning to actually ignore criticism or process criticism is actually a skill of mental toughness that you have to acquire.

And you can't just say, ignore the haters. That's not the way you acquire this skill. Yeah, that's that. Ignore the haters is a Instagram post. 

[00:56:06] Paddy Steinfort: I have a colleague who, who likens that to saying, when someone sells you to ride a bike, like if you can't ride a bike right now and I tell you to ride a bike, that's not really helpful.

[00:56:13] Ronny Chieng: And I think a lot of toughness is acknowledging what is adversity to you instead of just pretending like it's not there. And that's something which I have been building and I've gotten really good at, and I think is a skill that we all need, whether you are performer or not. 'cause the internet is a chaotic place, you know?

And I don't think you should just go on it with a open mind and let all this poison into your head. 

[00:56:35] Paddy Steinfort: So, um, there was, there was a great line in your Netflix special, wasn't there? There was something that it's gonna imagine in like 20 years we're gonna look back at the internet and say, can't believe we let pregnant women use the internet.

[00:56:47] Ronny Chieng: Yeah. I can't believe that pregnant people, we can't believe we put kids on it. What we thinking. So that's one, that's a slight tangent, but that's all to say that they can. Understand, but only to a point. But always supportive. My wife was always supportive of it, and she's my first sounding board for jokes, my first sounding board for problems.

And she would come to shows and, but, and we have that thing where like, I don't expect her to come to every show because I'm a professional. You know, like I do it five, six times a night every single night. Like, she's not gonna run around New York City at night with me every single night. And I think that's also what the problem you are alluding to is that like a lot of the times you're in this grind and you just wanna be good at it, right?

Whether it's sports or it's the military or whatever skill. And when you are in the grind and you just want to get good, there's a lot of sacrifice that comes with trying to get good at something. And I think comedy's a very demanding mistress. I think with, with comedies, I can, I, I think every skill, but I can only speak about comedy from experiences, is that you better be prepared to give everything to it.

Because when you're doing shows at the start. There's no money. And also you're doing it at night, and then most likely you'll be unemployed in the day or you'll be working the day. But either way you won't, it's gonna suck. You won't see your friends in the day, 'cause they'll be working normal jobs. Then at night when they're free, you'll be working, right?

So you're never gonna see them. You and, and then guess what, if you get really good at it, you're gonna start touring on weekends. So you'll be out of town. So you're gonna miss weddings, birthdays, funerals, graduations. You're gonna miss a ton of stuff, you know? And are you, how much do you want it? You know, are you willing to do that?

And, and again, I think sacrifice is a very easy thing to say, but it's very hard thing to actually do. And can you give that up? And for me, my personality is, I easily can give that up. I don't care about any of that. So for me, my personality was just like, yeah, I, I just want to get good at this thing. And, and, you know, having a partner that's supportive is a huge part of that because they get the grind and what it takes, and they understand that mindset of, I'm just.

Grind. You know, I don't, I don't care about restaurants or whatever. Like I, I actually, I'm a foodie. I love restaurants, but I don't care about like, running around. I care more about this. Yeah. And, and she, thankfully she understands that, you know, and she was always very supportive and yeah, it's where rubber meets the road of it's all well and good to say balance in the relationship.

But the truth is, she oftentimes, there is no balance. A lot of the times, oftentimes I'm probably taking more than I'm giving just because I'm busy doing this crazy thing. Right. 

[00:59:22] Paddy Steinfort: Um, it's, no, it's not an uncommon experience for definitely the pro athletes, the elite surgeons for musicians, for comedians, for military operators.

Like there is, when people are trying to do something unusual and by definition like trying to be really good at something is unusual, that often will mean that there's, I often will say anything good you're trying to do is gonna come with dis. That not only means like you bombing on stage, it also means like there's this shit that I have to deal with away from my job.

Yeah. That is also hard because I'm trying to be really good at this hard thing. And that there's like, there's layers and ripple effects to that. Yeah. We could go on about that forever. 

[00:59:48] Ronny Chieng: Yeah. For, for sure. And I just wanna say, you know, she was always very supportive and, and, uh, she's a killer in her own right.

You know, she's a, a Melbourne law school. She graduated Masters of Law, NYU and she passed the bar, New York bar, her first try, she was working a law firm in Australia and she quit that job to come to New York with me, you know, and then she didn't get a job just so she could travel with me, so we could deal, that's how we dealt with the relationship, was when I'm on the road or I'm, I'm shooting a movie, she would travel with me, you know, so she gave up that stuff to do it.

So yeah, that's, that's huge sacrifice there as well. So yeah, she was. She's definitely my psychological rock, and that's because of her sacrifice as well. So yeah, there's that aspect of it. You know, I I, I was very lucky if find someone who's willing to give up that much. Very cool man. Very cool. 

[01:00:49] Paddy Steinfort: I wanna, I often will finish with this very broad question.

You can take it wherever you, wherever you want to go. What's your hope, not only in terms of career, like what's, what, what's your end game? What, what's coming up for you? But also like, in terms of some of the, some people more explicitly I'll talk about, I had a running back from the 49 ERs the other day who is very clear that like he shares his story and he talks about this stuff because he went through a lot of shit, like things that you and I Australia, imagine No, no, no.

He grew up in central Florida, I think. Okay. And he went through some, some stuff. It's, I'll send you the episode. It's amazing. Sure. But he's very clear like, I'm doing this now because I want change lives. Like that's, he's at that level right now. I'm not saying that you need to be at that level. Yeah. And I'm, I'm saying most of us probably aren't, but more looking at in terms of what you wanna achieve with the rest of your career.

What's next for you? Like you've, you've conquered the world almost. Well, I don't know about that. I'm still, I'm still learning a lot. I'm still, I'm still trying, trying to get better at this. From, from University of Melbourne. You've done? Yeah. 

[01:01:51] Ronny Chieng: Uh, yeah. Okay. We to have low standards, Patty. Yeah. I, I reached a point, there was a point in New York City, I was doing shows.

I remember I was one about a year, a year in to New York. I, I got passed at the Cellar, so I was performing there. That was like my dream venue to perform at. And there was a moment on stage where I was 100% in the moment and I was like, man, this is what it's about. It's just being on this comedy cell stage in this small room, doing jokes, making people laugh.

You know, and just getting back to that, you know, that pure creation. So for me, I just wanna make dope shit Quoing, Kanye West. Like, I just wanna tell fun stories and get better at comedy. And, you know, my style is, I'm lucky that I put stuff out there and whoever likes it, likes it. And if you don't like it, that's cool too, you know, like that, that's my style of dealing with it.

I'm, I'm never trying to pander for more audiences. You know, I'm, I've always been a guy who kind of puts the comedy out there and hope, and I've been lucky that people get behind it a little bit, I guess, you know, managed to build a little little bit of falling so I can make a living from this. But yeah, that's, that's all, at least for me, it's just what I want is I just wanna make the next great joke.

That's all. That's the only thing I wanna do, i..

[01:03:04] Paddy Steinfort: You wanna keep getting better. 

[01:03:06] Ronny Chieng: What's that next best joke? What's the next killer joke that I can, I can write? That's, that's, that's the joy of it, man. That's the only joy of it, you know, because if you're doing it for money, if you're doing it for money or fame, like honestly that you're never gonna have enough money and you're never gonna be famous enough.

You know, like we're talking right now and you know, I, whatever, I, I got to be in a really fun movie that was popular and on the Daily Show, [01:03:30] but dude, you, like, you don't know who I am. You know what I mean? Like, what it, but, and that doesn't matter. Like, it doesn't, yeah. To me, that doesn't matter. The profile, it helps me because it helps make a living, but ultimately for me, it's the next joke.

What's the next funny joke? You know? That's, that's, yeah. That's the obsession. 

[01:03:47] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. Yeah. If you were interviewing yourself on your podcast and I think it was called Crushing It or something like that, like it was about, it was a Success, success podcast. People do cool shit. If you yourself was a parody..

[01:03:06] Ronny Chieng: That was a parody podcast by The Daily Show. We did one episode and it was mocking people who do podcasts. So brilliant. That's what you saw. Yeah. 

[01:04:08] Paddy Steinfort: Perfect. If you were interviewing yourself on a podcast that wasn't a parody, what would you ask yourself? What, what do you think is is interesting about you and not many people talk? 

[01:04:12] Ronny Chieng: Dude, I don't think anything's interesting about me.

I got, I honestly, I don't think anything interest about me that hasn't really been asked like 50 times. I, although I will say that I'm not just saying, I'm not just trying to pander, like this was probably one of the more interesting, fun podcasts I've done. 'cause of the approach of it, you know, the, specifically the mental aspects of performing in stressful situations, which I think is not discussed enough with enough nuance, you know? So yeah, everything you asked me, I probably would, would wanna ask myself all. 

[01:04:51] Paddy Steinfort: Well, cool. Appreciate it.  You can email me if you, if you think of any down the track. But for now man, we'll wrap that up. I, I really appreciate it. Ronny, I hank you very much for your time. For anyone who wants to see, I know that I've mentioned at the start of the show your, your Netflix special.

[01:05:06] Ronny Chieng: Um, yeah, yeah. Asian  comedian Destroys America. You can watch it on Netflix. Yeah. Thanks for listening to this. If you, man should listen to the end. 

[01:05:15] Paddy Steinfort: Appreciate it Ronny. Thanks very much man. Go on and enjoy Sydney for me buddy.