How This Olympic Sprinter Beat the Odds (AND the Boys)

"I thought I was dying."

That’s how Veronica Campbell Brown (Olympic Champion) describes the finish of the race where she made history.

Before her eight Olympic medals and before becoming only the second woman ever to win back-to-back Olympic 200m events, Veronica was a country girl in rural Jamaica who grew up without much. Her daily training consisted of running five miles barefoot on dirt roads to the market. This raw hunger to rise out of poverty led her to constantly challenge and beat older boys in community street races, all while focusing on her goal to get a scholarship and make a life for herself.

In this episode, Veronica and her longtime coach, Dr. Erik Korem (NFL Performance Director), who also coached her to those historic victories, dive deep into the mindset of a generational talent. Dr. Korem, who went on to work as a Director of Sports Science and Operations at FSU Football and with the Houston Texans, shares how he worked with Veronica to maintain her position at the top of the world.

This is a masterclass in:

• The lioness mindset that makes a champion "hyper competitive" at the starting line.
• How to quickly "flush it and move on" from a devastating loss at the Olympic Trials.
• The key to sustained high performance: accepting that once you're on top, you have to work even harder.
• Dr. Korem's system for "seeing a problem for what it is" and problem-solving in complex, high-stakes environments.

Connect with Veronica:
🌐 Website: https://veronicacampbellbrown.com/
✖️X (Twitter): https://x.com/VCampbellBrown
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vcampbellbrown/

Connect with Erik:
🌐 Website: https://www.erikkorem.com/
✖️X (Twitter): https://x.com/ErikKorem
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/erikkorem
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erikkorem/

Follow me for more:
🌐 Website: www.toughness.com
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/paddysgram/
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paddysteinfort/
✖️ X (Twitter): https://x.com/Paddys_posts

TRANSCRIPTION:

[00:00:00] Veronica Campbell Brown: No matter what challenges you get to face, as long as you stick with it, you will be a better person through it. 

[00:00:06] Dr. Erik Korem: She was like a lioness. As soon as she gets on the starting line, she's going to eat your heart out. 

[00:00:11] Veronica Campbell Brown: I keep going back to win, and I always find a reason to say, okay, that's why I lost. I always find a way to blame myself, and by blaming myself I see, okay, that is what I did wrong because I did that wrong, then I can fix it 

[00:00:22] Dr. Erik Korem: The best, learn faster than anybody else. And so when they see that there's an error, they may not have the answer or the solution, but they're gonna find out what the best answer is and then they're gonna cool all their resources and abilities to attack that problem. 

[00:00:43] Paddy Steinfort: Welcome to the Toughness podcast. My name's Paddy Steinford, your host, and we have a couple of fantastic guests on today's show. Very, very different journeys. Both have made it to the top of the world in their respective arenas. First up, Veronica Campbell Brown, an eight time Olympic medalist, and I'm really, really specific on this point here.

The second woman in history in the entire history of the human race to win two consecutive Olympic 200 meter events, three Olympic goals, three world championship goals. Welcome to the show, Veronica. 

[00:01:15] Veronica Campbell Brown: Thank you for having me. 

[00:01:16] Paddy Steinfort: It's great to have you here, and we we're lucky to be joined by. This is a really cool dynamic here because we're joined by your longtime coach, Erik Korem, who I met as a director of Sports science and operations at FSU Football.

Then went on to work with Houston Texans in the NFL and now founder and CEO of AIM seven, his own. Data analytics company. Welcome to the show, Erik. 

[00:01:37] Dr. Erik Korem: Thank you so much. I'm glad to be here. And you didn't have to mention as many Olympic medals either, right?

[00:01:43] Paddy Steinfort: Right. Well, I was, I was saying before the show that I needed to make sure, if anyone's watching the video right now, my eyes are not on the screen because I'm reading truth, the, uh, a list of accomplishments that's longer. She's quite accomplished than my phone. 

[00:01:55] Dr. Erik Korem: Quite hard to follow. 

[00:01:56] Paddy Steinfort: So Veronica, don't be so good at making my, make my job easier here. Um, so that's a list of the post game review, I guess, of, Hey, here's a, here's an Olympic career that went pretty well and we can look back at it and there's all these things I get to read out.

But part of what I love about this show and these conversations is we get to explore the fact that it wasn't always like that. And you came from Jamaica and an upbringing and a, and a and a life that most of us can't imagine. To then end up being one of only two women in history to perform a, a certain achievement at the Olympic Games.

And so really curious to go to rewind the tape somewhat and go back into your childhood. Not in a Freudian way, but just be like, Hey, tell us about what it was like growing up in Jamaica and how you ended up in sprinting. Is that like, is that just kind of what happens in Jamaica If you, if you're kind of athletic, you end up being a sprinter. Tell us about how it started for you. 

[00:02:46] Veronica Campbell Brown: Yes, definitely. A lot of, um, the athletes in Jamaica end up in Sprint for me. I was born in Lan in Jamaica. It is a rural area, so I consider myself a country girl. And I grew up in a family that was a huge family, but growing up I did not have much. But I have, I, my mother, I grew up with my mother, my stepfather, and several brothers and sisters.

I have five brothers, four sisters. And so I grew up in a large family. We did not have much, but my mother thought made a value of hard work and just being positive and staying focused. And so when I discovered my gift for running at a very young age, I realized that was the opportunity for me to rise from my humble beginning and become something greater of life.

And so I've always just have that in the back of my head. And so I've always worked on the track and field to the point where everything I do always include running. So although I have a lot of brothers and sisters, just to, to share the, with the toss with my mother always made me the child of choice to be sent to the supermarket. Because in Jamaica we don't normally stop go street. We buy like daily. 

[00:04:09] Paddy Steinfort: And so how far, how far are we talking to the supermarket? How far is that? 

[00:04:12] Veronica Campbell Brown: I wanna say about five miles. Okay. Yeah. And, um, I would run, I, but it's all, it was always fun. I would run on these d dirt roads, bare feed, whether it is dry or wet.

It was always fun. And I would run to get whatever my mom wanted to cook and she normally start cooking and just send me to buy whatever she needs because she know that I would get back in time. And so I would also, I love running so much that I was beating all the girls and I realized that wasn't enough.

So I started to initiate race races with the boys, even older boys. And they would be quick to accept the challenge because they're like, okay, I'm gonna beat her. She's just a girl and she's a young girl. But to their surprise, I, I win most of those races. I'm so. And so it become a community entertainment where people would come outta the street just to watch me racing these boys down the on, on the street barefoot.

And it was funny because the street that we chose to race on was going downhill. So you're adding that extra speed and you have to maintain your technique and know how to run down the hill when everything is fast. And so track and field is a blessing for me and I really embrace my talent. And I, I realize that it doesn't matter where you come from, it's about your hard work, your determination.

And I really appreciate being from a humble beginning and born in Jamaica where we don't have like American football, we don't have great basketball teams, and the main sport is track and field. And so I had no choice if I wanted to get out of Jamaica, if I wanted to be appealing to the US comp, to the US schools to get a scholarship.

I had to work extremely hard because it was very competitive and everywhere you look you could find a great sprint athlete. And so I had to stay focused, stay on the course, and know that I'm working hard because I wanted to get out of poverty. I wanted to make a life for myself so I can give back to my family.

And so it was just an absolute blessing. I can't stress it too much enough to discover that I had the talent and I had people around me who supported and pushed me to the right schools and helped me to just continue evolving and training hard. And I am where my, where I'm at today, just because of track and feel and I, I think that because I did not have much.

My, my determination was always on a high, don't matter how challenging it was, whether I'm, whether I didn't have shoes, whether I didn't have food, I'm going to training because I see if it's an opportunity to get better and I know that my situation would be temporary and I, as long as I keep pushing shoe and keep working hard, then I know that I would be rewarded.

[00:06:50] Paddy Steinfort: Really, really cool story. Like I'm, I'm like, oh, I got eight questions lined up in my head from that. But I wanna pick up on something you mentioned there where you said, I know my situation's gonna be temporary. One of the things that we do in work with pro athletes a lot particularly, and, and also in the military, is teaching about optimism.

Where you can interpret a certain situation one way or the other. It's uncertain. We do, we deal with what I call with the four uns that, uh, it's unclear, it's unknown. There's uncertainty or potentially in your case, there's a little bit of being uncommon as well. Like these are all things that could go one way or the other depending on how you interpret them.

You naturally have said, okay, there's a boy there who wants to race me downhill, and you could interpret that as, I'm gonna be embarrassed, or I'm gonna get beaten, or I've grown up in this situation. It's gonna be tough. But it sounds like you naturally or reflexively interpreted everything as, oh, I'm gonna move into that.

I'm gonna go to towards that, rather than run away from that. Is that something that you learned via your parents or do you feel like that was just who you were as a character? Or like, tell us a little more about why you, why you look at that as how do you get to the point? You look at an adversity or something that's a little bit uncertain and you're like, it won't always be like that. How did that, where did that come from? 

[00:08:02] Veronica Campbell Brown: I think it's a combination of three things. I would say. I think I bond with a little bit of that, and then my parents, you know, determine they, they, they, they are, and the environment that I was in. So all those things I had no choice. But because I'm always have challenge that I have to fight.

And so I embrace my challenges when I have a difficult situation. I don't view it as a threat. I view it as a challenge, a way to improve, a way to get better, a way to prove to others or to prove to myself that I can do it. And so when it comes to race in boys, I, my objective was to beat them because I'm like, if I can beat these boys and I, I want to be a great track athlete, this is a way to help me develop and just help me to run with people who I believe would be faster than me.

And it gonna challenge me hard enough to push because the objective is to win. I'm very competitive and I always want to win. And so, because I was beating all the girls, I'm like, it wasn't. So I'm like, okay, in order for me to get to the next level, now I need to challenge the boys. And it was amazing. It was just fun for me to raise these boys and see the surprise on their face when they laugh, but they keep coming back because they're like, okay, that was a mistake.

And it just keep happening over and over. But you know, it is the ego and with the community looking like, okay, Veronica, just be X. And he, he feel a little disappointed and he want to prove himself. So the next time we lined up and the thing, the same things hap happen. He be, but my mindset is always doing, and I'm always very competitive and I really believe that I was born like that.

My parents helped me to be determined and, and always going after victory. And even when I'm defeated in one race or in one situation. That does not even change the way I look at it. I keep going back to win and I always find a reason to say, okay, that's why I lost. I always find a way to blame myself and by blaming myself I see, okay, that is what I did wrong because I did that wrong, then I can fix it.

And those things help me to just take motivated regardless of the results if I get it or not. I'll just keep going back. 

[00:10:00] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. I mean super interesting there that you said that you tied the response to uncertainty of like choosing to think that it's not permanent to being competitive, which is I would do that but only 'cause I've seen a bunch of data that would suggest that and also that you then move to saying that regardless of win or lose, that's how you were and really super fascinating response.

That's not really taught, but it definitely reflects my experience. Erik, and I'm interested to dig into yours, you, you've been with world class athletes now for over 10 years. I know we met a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, down in Tallahassee, Florida, but you've been across a bunch of both high level collegiate athletes, high level pro football players, and also Olympians as in the case of Veronica and others.

[00:10:47] Paddy Steinfort: Mm-hmm. What does that, does that vibe with your experience of like the best of the best or the people who can handle competition are the ones who are able to look at things innately and just say, Hey, I'm gonna attack this? Or is it something that you see, you actually see some people fall on their face and then get better at?

[00:11:04] Dr. Erik Korem: I think it's a little bit of both. I don't think there's one right answer to that. I do think that the best learn faster than anybody else, and so when they see that there's an error, they may not have the answer or the solution, but they're gonna find out what the best answer is and then they're gonna pool all their resources and abilities to attack that problem. 

And so some people are very self-aware and they can just diagnose themselves. Some people need a coach, but you know, there's the naturals that just are self-taught and they can go out and do things and it just seems a little bit easier. I'm sure if you would ask them, they would tell you that that's a little bit more difficult.

But, you know, you see athletes across all different planes, you know, but then the commonality is when they identify what the limiting factor is, that they attack it with everything that they have. 

[00:11:56] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. And, and that was, that was the other interesting thing that I didn't mention there, Veronica, was that you said, I find the, I find a way to blame myself.

Mm-hmm. Which is, some might argue these days a little bit unusual, but integral to people being able to turn things that might become permanent to feeling like I have some power over this. Like if it's just because coach is an asshole and he won't put me in the lineup. Then there's not much I can do about that.

And so I will give up. Right. But if you're able to actually say, what can I do about this? Yeah, it gives you some feeling of power and, and a little more, little more energy to attack some of the problems. Erik, you, you about to add to that? 

[00:12:34] Dr. Erik Korem: Yeah, I was gonna just kind of brag on Veronica for a second. Like, I'm just thinking to myself, myself, Veronica, we've known each other since 2005.

I don't think in victory or defeat that she's ever blamed anybody else or really like even in winning, I never saw her gloat her win. It was like this humility about it. And now that I kind of think about that for a second, that is very uncommon and she's always just been super classy and, you know, shrack and field, she could tell you it's a very difficult sport, especially when it comes to, you know, the financial components of it.

There's a lot on the line. It's not like you can make the practice squad in the NFL or you can make, just make the roster and you're living a pretty good life there. I mean, the difference between first and sixth is like living in a good neighborhood and like maybe still living outta your car. And so there's a lot of competitiveness and other things that go with that.

That, and I just never saw her do anything but shoulder the burden herself, even though the people that surrounded her would feel the pain of loss or the joy of victory. But it was never like, it's all about me. You know what I'm saying? And she's super self-aware in that sense and but also very. Hyper competitive.

I mean like, like I always say, she was like a, she was like a lioness. As soon as she gets on the starting line, she's gonna eat your heart out. 

[00:14:06] Paddy Steinfort: Here we go. I like.. 

[00:14:08] Dr. Erik Korem: But as soon as it's over with, she'll give you a big hug. But man, I wouldn't wanna be standing in her way. 

[00:14:14] Paddy Steinfort: That's, that's great. That's a great visual there of the lioness on the starting line.

The research that we've done on high level, like world class performers actually reflects that, that the number one predictor of success if you equalize for talent and age and everything else is how competitive someone is. And so you describing that is really interesting that it actually reflects someone who has one of the best records of all time in the Olympics.

Yes. Is a lioness on the starting line. I really like that visual. Switching it up for a second. Oh, actually I'm gonna grab what you just said there, Erik. You mentioned two things. One being, you know, shouldering the burden is the visual that that you threw out there and also the lioness at the starting line.

Those are a couple of things that form part of some people's definition of toughness, and we are to ask everyone who comes on the show. Like in your arena. So in what you've seen in the sporting arena, both at the collegiate level, at Olympics, at professional football level, is that a part of toughness?

Is that for you? Like that's what it is, just be, just look after your own shit? Or like how would you define toughness based on some of the world class performers you've seen? 

[00:15:25] Dr. Erik Korem: Yeah, I think toughness is task specific. So I believe that like, you know, when people, especially I've been in like environments where you're identifying or evaluating talent, you want to look for people that are generally optimistic.

Okay, that's part of the equation. But you can't be tough to everything. That's impossible. You can't just be tough to every situation in the world. So, for instance, I could take Veronica, who on the track in her area of expertise is like, yeah, I'm gonna own you. But if I took her and like put her with some of our folks in the military and threw some camo on her and said, all right, jump out of a helicopter, or go jump out of an airplane at, you know, and just, she's never jumped out of an airplane.

She would have a very high stress response and she'd probably be like, no, Uhuh, I ain't doing this unless she was trained. 

[00:16:20] Paddy Steinfort: Would you drunk it? Would you jump out of an airplane for the sake of this show, if we organize that? 

[00:16:24] Veronica Campbell Brown: Hmm. I've never tried it. I'm not so fond of I, but you never know. It could be fun.

[00:16:33] Paddy Steinfort: Alright, well I'll come back to it anyway. Sorry.

[00:16:34] Dr. Erik Korem: Keep going. But my, my point is, is like. You would see a stress response, you would see like all the typical things. But if you trained her, if you took her to Fort Benning, Georgia and like put her through like jump school, she would develop the skillset and she could be tough in that scenario.

And so for me, like it's task specific and we have different bandwidths for different areas. And then the more you scale your experience, you can become more tough and more tough and more tough. But that's just the way I view things. 

[00:17:05] Paddy Steinfort: And so when you're describing that, you're talking about the ability to either control or have a reduced physiological response to a noxious stimuli, is that what you are describing?

[00:17:14] Dr. Erik Korem: Yeah. And that you can access more of your memory, you can see the field better. You can chunk cues. So I've seen quarterbacks in college, okay. That were really, really good. Go to an NFL tryout. And it was like they couldn't throw a ball. And you're like, what just happened there? And then after a few days, the pressure starts going down and then they get more comfortable and then they're doing the thing.

Yeah. But as you know, like when you're under stress, especially if it's a new stress, like you're, you know, see a little, see a lot, see a lot, see nothing. You start paying, it's like your attention is all over the place and you have to be able to harness that. So I've just seen that it's task specific and as you scale it over time and it's, you know, stress inoculation that you can become more tough.

Right. And so I just think it's, I've seen it with athletes too, that. They start on this stage, they develop toughness and they go to the next level and they develop more, and then more and more, more. Does that make sense? 

[00:18:10] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah, absolutely. The c uh, see a little, see a lot, see a lot, see nothing. I wanna come back to that as a comment while on the top, while we're on the topic of toughness and defining it.

Now, going to someone who is lion at the starting line and, and has eaten other competitors for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, how would you define toughness, Veronica, in your world, in your arena? And it doesn't necessarily have to be limited to your destroying other humans on the track. Like growing up, growing up in poverty in Jamaica, how like does that shape your definition of toughness?

[00:18:44] Veronica Campbell Brown: I would say I really like a definition of being task specific. That's new to me and I really, I really like like that concept because I didn't look at it that way. For me, I just see toughness as having that determination, having like a tunnel vision on your bone and don't matter what obstacle your face though matter, the setback, nothing change and you just don't matter how many times you're not, when you pick yourself up and you brush yourself off and you just keep working towards your goal.

So for me that that is just having that mental resilience to never give up no matter what and just keep your sight set on your goal and be consistent even when things are difficult. 

[00:19:21] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah, it's very, I mean you mentioned there, there's the steady. Vision on your goal, no matter how difficult things are, no matter whether you fall over the resilience to keep coming back.

Mm-hmm. Do, can you describe, when was the first time you recognized that in yourself? Where like, it sounds like you were just like, Hey, this is a girl who can beat all the guys on the block, and so let's take her to nationals into in Jamaica, and then she can beat all the girls in Jamaica. So let's take her to the Olympics.

Like, it sounds like a pretty smooth run. Right? But I'm assuming that there was some hiccups and pitfalls along the way. It, when did you first recognize that? When did you have to draw on that? 

[00:19:58] Veronica Campbell Brown: Right. My first here in high school, very technical high school. Al high School is one of the most accomplished high school in Jamaica.

It has produced most Olympians in Jamaica's track field history, and I was advised to attend very technical high school because of the history and the quality training that I would get to continue to improve my speed and technique. And so I got to very technical, high school, dominating in my parish in Cho.

And when I got there, I was not fit enough for the sprint team. So that was the first wake up call, like, okay, you are beating all the boys in Chi la but now this is a new level. And I was forced to run the 400 meters. I did not know anything about the four meters. Never trained for it before. I never run it before, but here I was.

I had no choice. I love track and field. I want to stay on the team. And so I had to train for the 400 meters for, for, for one season. And I'm telling you those training sessions were extreme. I had to finish all my workouts. There are days when I have to go on a 30 minutes run, then I come back for the track workouts and all this work were new to me, but I had to develop resilience and toughness and just stay working, staying hard because I wanted to get back to the sprints.

And I really believe that I was a sprinter, but for one season I was a 400 meter runner. And although I run at the high school championship, I did not do well, but I stayed in it and I keep working hard. I eventually, I regained my position in the sprint one season later, and that very season I won my, my first Global Titan a hundred meter at the World Youth Championships.

And so if I'd given up, because if I wanted, I could have quit. I could have just stopped doing track and field because I wasn't doing what I want. But I stayed with it. I stayed focused on my goal and I know that I would regain a position in the sprints. And when I got back to the sprints, I felt like a stronger, better person because the training wasn't as hard.

The train, the sprint training was actually easy based on what I was doing for the 40 meter training. So I think that was the first time I realized that no matter what challenges you have to you get to face as long as you stick with it. You would be a better person through it. So that little lesson taught me to not be afraid of challenges.

And so when I start running in the Olympics, and it was like a, after I finished competing for high school and competing at those championships in Jamaica, the Olympic stage, although it was a bigger global stage, it feels like I've been there before because it's always a fight to make sure that I, that I make the team to make sure that I win and get the points that are required of me.

And so I think my high school really, the technical high school, they really taught me what it meant to just, they determined, keep persevering and no matter what, what I have to do, I can, I can get it done. 

[00:22:59] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. That's a, it's a common refrain from people who we have on the show and, and people who aren't on the show, but are world class performers talking about a little moment in time where they had a, a group or a community around them that actually shifted.

Either their definition of toughness or what they, you know, Lindsey Vaughn referred to it as levels of toughness where she would say, I thought I was training hard and now then I went to this thing and I was like, holy shit. And then she leveled up and she leveled up and eventually becomes one of the best in the world.

But the power of community to help toughen people up by not necessarily beating up on them, but by showing them like, Hey, here's a different way to do this. Or you, if you want to go further, you have to do it this way. And Erik, that kind of is part of your job description, right? Or when you are, uh, in charge of FSU and when you're at the Houston axs, your job is effectively to take young men in this instance, into an environment where they've been rated.

Like if they're ending up at FSU, they're, they're one of the best in the country. Yeah. If they're ending up in the Houston Texans, by definition, they're one of the best in the world. And yet your job is to both physically and in, in many cases, mentally say, Hey. Well done on getting here, but that ain't it.

Like we need to level that up. Can you describe how you learned to do that? Like was that what you've set out to do at the start of your career, or you just wanted to help people get physically strong? 

[00:24:14] Dr. Erik Korem: Yeah, I thought I was gonna be just a strength coach. Nothing wrong with that, but that was kind of the path that was on.

And then actually, it was through being with Veronica and her husband Omar, and getting to travel and see how it things were getting done in different parts of the world, I started seeing that there was this thing called high performance and that there was a more global approach to athlete development.

And one of the things I really loved about Track was that everything was streamlined. You know, it was like coach, athlete, therapist, strength coach in our situation. So there was not a lot of like E, everything was kind of coordinated really, really well. And so that's really what I wanted to do was to be really in charge of athlete development.

And when I was at between FSU and Detections, I was the high performance director at University of Kentucky and we had some just. It was really hard. We were really bad when we got there, like really, really bad. But we had a few studs, couple first round draft picks. One guy in particular, his name is Zari Smith, great guy, crushed it in junior college, comes into Kentucky.

He's got a great heart, but like he just didn't know what that step needed to be. A dominant SEC player in his first year. He struggled and you can only do so much. You can tell them what's gonna happen. You can give them the tools, but they sometimes have to learn for themselves. And after that season, he was like, I didn't perform up to my standard.

I see what you're talking about now, coach. And then it was like he was all in, he had the skill, the ability, and then he just like, once they accepted that this is what it's going to take. Then his career took off. You know what I'm saying? So I lo that's the, like my favorite part about the whole thing is like the discovery process of what it takes to be elite.

And one thing I've had to learn is for some people it takes a little bit longer and that's the frustration in college was is that like you see a freshman and you're like, you should be doing this, this, this, this, this and this. And you just can't expect for it to click overnight. It's gonna take two or three years for some of these guys, one of our, I love this guy's name's, Jojo Kemp.

He was a big knucklehead his freshman, sophomore year or freshman year. And you know, just jovial personality, but just anyways. And he had to kind of had this moment where like it really clicked for him. Like, this is what it means to be a great teammate. And the next, so his freshman year, you know, he's one of the starting running backs in the rotation, but he's just not, it's just not happening that off season it clicks.

Okay. The next year we beat South Carolina, broke a losing streak. I think we won in triple overtime. And he literally carried the team, like they handed the ball off to him every single play. And it was like, because he figured it out the year before, like he was then counted on and he carried the team to a huge win.

And so, like those are the moments that it's just so amazing to watch. Veronica. I was just kind of lucky to just hang around 'cause like she, she was just like, she would hold you, you know what I'm saying? It was like, Erik, this is what's gonna happen. This is what I'm gonna do. And that I felt like I better show up and bring whatever I can to the table to make sure it's there. But I hope I answered your question, uh, well enough. 

[00:27:37] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. There. I mean, you, the, one of the words that stood out to me was, was acceptance. Mm-hmm. Where it's partly. A young athletic prodigy's ability to accept like, okay, what got me here isn't gonna get me there, or, this is what's expected of me here in this environment.

But even you mention it yourself, Erik, in your journey as a practitioner. Like you had to accept that, okay, working with Veronica's a different level and, and if I wanna be doing this, then I, here are my new standards. 

[00:28:05] Dr. Erik Korem: And I, I, I was just like one of the athletes, you know, I had to recalibrate my view, not just with Veronica, but with like college athletes for a, versus like college.

I had to learn how to get more patient. I had to learn to be more patient and nurturing and like, yes, this is where you need to be, but like, I've gotta, I, it's on me to figure out how to get you there. Now in the NFL, you are paid to do a job and so there's a little bit less like bandwidth. You, you know, my thing was like, how can I solve a problem for you?

How can I be in service to you? It was a little bit of a mindset flip and I enjoyed that too. Because like these are grown men. They're providing for their families. They understand the consequences of winning and losing. And so if I can just present myself in a way to be a service to them, that was the best way to create relationships and help them on their journey.

[00:28:57] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah, and and and I, I'm sure there was moments of that for you as well, Veronica, you mentioned one of gonna high school schooling accepting, okay, I've gotta run 400, like I hate it. That shit burns anyone who's ever run one 400. Yeah. It's terrible. Let alone many of them. Yeah. Will appreciate that pain. But is is that a, was that a a, a skill that you picked up there or that was, like you said, it was just, I, I'm going the Olympics and so whatever it takes.

[00:29:23] Veronica Campbell Brown: Yeah, absolutely. Because that's the school I wanted to be in, and that was what it takes to stay on the track team. And it's, it's almost like I had to earn my place, even though I came in as a sprinter when I got there, I, it was like, well, I was not good enough. There was so many great athletes on the team, and there's just a certain number of athletes who can run each event at the high school championship.

And so I wanted to stay on the team. And so after to, I had to accept my position, which was a 400 meter runner at the time, and I really gained a lot from it. So at the end, when I, when I look at, at the end, it was good for me. It helped me develop because maybe I was not ready. Maybe I was too young my first year to compete with the girls that has been there two and three years.

And so by me taking a step back and do something totally different when I get back, when I, um. Got back to the for, to the Sprint. I was like a brand new person. I was just excited and, um, ready to go and I felt stronger and I felt better. So I think it did work out in my favor. And so I learned to embrace whatever situation I find myself in and know that things will work out.

And I always believed that something good don't matter how bad it is, something good. You can always find something good outta every situation. 

[00:30:38] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. Then let's let, I, I'd like to dig into that a little bit because you said a couple of things there that one of my other guests was a comedian and not, was still is a comedian on the Daily Show.

He basically does public speaking, but he has to make people laugh at the same time. And that's the number one fear for, for the human race. So it's a different kind of toughness, but he has to get up there every night and make people laugh. He described the conversation he had with his wife where she, where he was getting trolled online or whatever, and, and she said to him, you know, just screw the haters.

Ignore the haters. And he was like, that's a fucking Instagram post. Like, how do you do that? You can say it all you want, but the process of doing that is, is something that like, you have to actually learn to do that. And so you said, you know, something there about embracing it and some people might say, embrace the suck or, you know, they, there, there's good Instagram posts about that.

\But what was your process, maybe if we fast forward a little to, okay, you've made the Olympics or you've won one medal and you go on to win as a set starter, show a bunch of them. What was something that you had to evolve your thinking around in terms of embracing something that wasn't comfortable in order to not just make it, 'cause once you made it, you then stayed there for a long time as well.

And that we have a lot of listeners who, whether they're in the military and have made the ranks and they wanna move up, or whether they're an athlete or a business person, whatever they're trying to do. They might have already made it to what their initial goal was. They've gone through that high school moment.

So you, once you were at the top of the tree, what did you need to accept to stay there? 

[00:32:04] Veronica Campbell Brown: I had to work harder because it, once you get to the top, the pressure keep building for you to stay there. And so you have to keep evolving. You have to, it's almost like you have to get stronger, you have to become more determined.

It seems that the more I achieve, the more I am forced to become, more determined to be, to not become complacent. Because after winning my first Olympic medals, I was senior, I was a senior in college and that year I won the indoors 200 meters at the SEC and I. Right after that, I forfeited the rest of my college eligibility and I went pro and the pressure continues because I, when in 2004, the next year in 2005, I lost the world Championship.

And so. I had to dig deep and figure out what was the problem because I was expected to win and then I lost. And so I realized that I cannot become complacent after each win. I have to celebrate quickly and get back to work there is no time for, and that's why I am very humble, because I am not a type of person who really pushed my accomplishment in people's space.

If you don't know what I accomplish, you won't know, because I don't really say it because I realized that it doesn't matter how much you accomplish, you always have to keep going. People are expecting more. People are looking for more. And it's almost like people are looking up to you to win when you go on the track.

And so for me, I have to become, the more I win, the more determined and the more hard, more I have to work hard to maintain that level of high performance and to make sure that I am not becoming over my head or think that I've made it or think that I've achieved everything. What is about staying determined and keep working hard? Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:33:54] Paddy Steinfort: Was there a process for you with that where like you say, okay, I I had to, okay. I won them, I won a gold medal. So, you know, not many of us can say we've won an Olympic gold medal. And yet you're, you talk about it like, okay, next minute I'm onto the next thing or next week. Like, what was the process for you to be like, okay, I accept that I've achieved this goal, or I've done this thing that's pretty damn hard to do.

How did you then, did that just naturally happen for you over a course of days or did you sit down and journal? Did you have a little getaway? Like what was it for you to help you move through that? 

[00:34:25] Veronica Campbell Brown: I think it's a natural, I think it was a natural thing for me because I have my goals. So each, at the beginning of each year, I, um, or each season rather, I set my goals and I keep moving towards them.

And as soon as I accomplish a goal, I, I set another one. And so it's like, I, I always have this, this list of things that I have that I want to achieve. And so I guess that keep me motivated, that keep me going. 

[00:34:48] Paddy Steinfort: Okay, good. And are the lists like stuck up on your wall, like beautiful mind style, or it's just a mental list?

[00:34:55] Veronica Campbell Brown: It's both. I have it mentally and I have it in my journal, and I still have a few things on my list that I haven't tick TikTok as yet. And I feel like the clock is ticking, but I'm still determined because I do believe that speed don't go anywhere anyways. You always have steam. As long as you can recover, then you're good to go.

And I feel great. I feel great in training. I'm hitting some very good times. And my only challenge, which is the recovery to stay healthy because over the last few years there's some injury that just jump off without like where these come from. It's about loving what I do, I think is a passion. I think it's just a passion for a track and field that keep me going.

And I'm not really, it's just icing on the cake. I feel like I've achieved a lot, but I just feel like if I can achieve more, then that will motivate a lot of people and that would help uplift a lot of people. And so it's ice on the cake for me, and it's fun and I enjoy it. Although the training can be challenging, and that may be the hardest part about sport.

You have to train so many months, and a race is just couple seconds and you have to make sure that you do everything right. You do not have any time to waste because you could throw away one ear of training just in a couple seconds if your focus is off a little. Or if you did not get enough rest the night before, or if you're distracted.

And so. I just enjoy doing it and I would really like to go to the little bit one more time just to, not only for me, but just to inspire and motivate a lot of people that don't matter where you are in life. If there is something that you have that you haven't checked off, you can still go for it and just do not limit yourself.

Just give it your best shot. Have fun with it, and, and that will help you to do well and, and accomplish whatever you accomplish. It'll, it'll work it because you enjoy doing 10. You have fun doing it. 

[00:36:47] Paddy Steinfort: So cool. So cool. We're gonna, we're gonna come back to that. 'cause I actually doing some work with Olympic swimmers right now who are in the same boat, who have previously competed at the Olympics.

A while back and they're like, no, you know what? We're doing it again. Let's, let's get in. And they, and they're, the training is so different, Erik, to what you and I are used to with, oh, sorry. You've obviously worked with, with all of the groups, but to what a football player might be doing in terms of like the, the investment and reward cycle that it's an entirely different challenge from a, a mental standpoint.

Before we go to that though, I've seen the perfect hook. For the little phrase you used before, Erik, in terms of the evolution at the, as people get to the top and then you've been drafted from college to the pros, or you've made an Olympics and you've run and you've won that people who become experts, and this applies, especially, I learned this from one of your colleagues at FSU, Erik, the late great Dr. Anders Erikkson, who talked about deliberate practice, which was not just volume, not just doing things 10,000 hours. 

It's a easy cliche, throwaway Instagram quote, but the ability for people to actually learn what you mentioned before when you said see a little, see a lot, see nothing, is that evolving as a professional, as an expert is not necessarily just doing more, it's about becoming clearer and more refined with what you look at.

Can you talk us through how, how you've seen that in, in different parts of your coaching experience? 

[00:38:15] Dr. Erik Korem: Yeah. I'll tell you something interesting. Like I, I want. Where'd you hear that? SI think it was Nick Saban and I think he got it from a sports psychologist 'cause he's really influenced by sports psychology.

But Gershon Tenenbaum, Dr. Gers Tenenbaum under FSU Giant in the field of sports psychology. He really mentored me a lot and he did this whole presentation once for this group of coaches. And he talked about chunking the field and maybe this was the first time I heard it and he showed like a football player returning a kick.

How like a novice decision maker will just kind of be looking all over the field, right? But a, but an expert decision maker knows the exact cues to pay attention to. And then he backed that up with a video of Ronaldo, the, have you seen the eye tracking one where he wears the eye tracking stuff and they show him, and he's looking at like maybe eight or 10 things.

And then the guy he's going against who's has no business going up against Ronaldo, it's just like looking all over the place. He's like totally messed up. And it's so true. It's like, as Dr. Peter Haber says, attention is the currency of performance. And that to me is a differentiator, is like being able to be aware of what your, what has your attention, and then being able to place your attention on that.

I don't know if you know Peter very well, but he tells this story, I, I heard it once at the USOC. He was talking about Chris Hoy, the Olympic cyclist. And he was a six time Olympic gold medalist, the most decorated cyclist of all time. And the first time he raced for an Olympic finals, he said it felt like he was going to the gallows.

And wow, that's an, that's an intense feeling. Like he's gonna go..

[00:39:54] Paddy Steinfort: Was he racing against Veronica? There was a line starting..

[00:39:58] Dr. Erik Korem: Somebody like that, but he felt like he was literally going to die. And what he did was is he's just said how he, he remembers like gripping the steering wheel and feeling his shoes and the clips on his bike.

And so he anchored his mind on a tactile sensation and was able to divert his attention to what he needed to do. And so that to me is like, if you are an, an elite athlete, or, or if you have to get up and speak in front of a group, like elite athletes actually feel pressure. And I think Veronica and I have talked about this before, if, if she doesn't feel a certain amount of pressure, something's off.

It's what you choose to do with that feeling, how you choose to shift your attention. So like for personally, for me, like if I have to do a pitch, like right now I'm raising money for my company or doing something like that, and it's kind of nerve wracking, you know, and I'll think about my first lines or I'll focus on like a specific cue and just harness in on that.

And then before I know it, I'm in the flow of the, of the situation. But yeah, that's the difference between being a novice and being an expert is you can, you can harness your attention, place it where you want it, when you want it. 

[00:41:08] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah, that's, I mean that, that's saying, I, I didn't realize I was paraphrasing someone else, but I use it a lot when I say that, that attention is the currency of performance.

Yeah. 'cause I particularly like the play on words of like, what do you pay attention to if you think about it as a currency? Mm. Like when I am paying attention to this, I'm literally investing one of the few scarce resources I have. And once it's gone, is that gonna pay me back or not? And you know, if I pay attention to the crowd as I'm receiving that kickoff, is that gonna pay me back or not?

Mm-hmm. Or if I'm paying attention to the B gap, that's probably gonna be more likely to gimme something back. And it's definitely..

[00:41:45] Dr. Erik Korem: Look at you, man. Throw out the football terminology. Hey, the B gap. I love it man. You are deep. 

[00:41:51] Paddy Steinfort: I've been around. That's right. I've been here long enough to pick up some things.

It's a concrete example of, and you gave me a great example and, and, and probably a more generalizable example of, I'm about to do something that's stressing me, whether it is field to kickoff, run an Olympic 200 present at a pitch for some venture capital, go for an audition, whatever it might be. This thing is stressing me out in the moment and so I'm gonna anchor my attention to something.

Particularly, it's helpful if it's sensory and it's not about. Notice the breeze or whatever it is, like, yeah, twist my foot on the, on the starting gate, whatever it might be, is, is the ability to anchor your attention on something that may be actually neutral allows you to then get in that flow and move your mind back to, okay, what's next?

And be task relevant rather than emotion tuned, because that's not helpful in those big moments. Veronica, would, would it be fair to say that you had a few of those little tricks yourself in terms of being in the starting blocks? Like what, where would your mind go? What would you pay attention to that helps pay you back in gold?

[00:42:56] Veronica Campbell Brown: In gold? So I use visualization a lot. So when I get to the starting block, I actually clear my mind because I've visualized my race so many times and I just clear my mind. And the only thing that I focus on in the start is just the sound of the gun. Then after reaction, everything just fall into place.

[00:43:17] Paddy Steinfort: Really cool. Really cool. And that's, I mean, it's so simple, right? Just any further gone, there's literally thousands. If you think about all the channels we can take into information from our eyes, our ears, our body, our thoughts, there's so many things you can tune into, but to be able to shrink it to one thing and be committed and specific to that is a common trick that a lot of elite performers will talk about.

I'm gonna circle back now to that four year cycle and that crazy journey you've Reem embarked on of like, Hey, let's do this crazy four year training thing for the hope of one shot, which is a really unusual and very different dynamic than most of us, whether it's a week-to-week sport like football, even a day-to-day sport like baseball.

Or if you're a surgeon and you have to cut five times every day, like there is a very clear, or at least a clearer return on investment of I'm doing this training. I've done this work and I'm getting doing this prep for this moment, and I get to find out every week whether I'm doing it right or not. 

Now you get to time things, but I'm really curious to dig into, for someone who is chasing something that is a while off now, yours is a hopefully a year away or less at the moment, but to do a four year training cycle, which you've done many times as an Olympian, the equivalent of  chasing a college degree, you should, the equivalent of trying to get drafted if you're in college, the equivalent of trying to, uh, get the right placement that you want for med school.

All of these things that people try and achieve that are long-term dreams. How did you prioritize what you paid attention to on a scale, not so much an in the moment thing, but what was important to you? What is important to you as you prepare for the Olympics when there's so much that could you away from that goal?

[00:44:56] Veronica Campbell Brown: The objective to take it daily. It's a daily, so there's a long-term goal, but then you have all these small goals that you have to achieve leading up to living up to it. And so the focus is on making sure that I'm training right, that I'm eating right, I'm sleeping, and that I'm achieving my goals, my daily goals or my monthly goals when I'm competing and I'm hitting the kind.

And so it's about doing all the little things daily, weekly, monthly, all the way to the Olympics. Because within that four year period, you have world champion, you world championship world into a championship. You have the circuit, the European circuit to compete in the US Circuit, and you have all these other tasks that you have to take care of.

But all of these are preparing you and building you up for that big moment, which only every four years. And so it is absolutely important to make sure that you are doing. Every little thing, little to make sure that when that comes, you, you are ready. 

[00:46:01] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah. The, the, the daily discipline is a challenge for a lot of people.

And you know, I'm gonna talk for myself here in, at one stage, during COVID lockdown, my waistline had expanded just a little bit due to a shift in eating and exercise habits. And that daily discipline is hard to come by without, but obvious. Obviously, I'm not trying to get to the Olympics, but what's a, what's an easy, easy tip that you've heard from someone else that you've then incorporated into your routine that like helps you stay on that daily aspo when there's so many different things in life that can take you away from a goal that's so far away?

Like I, I'm basically trading off with. Future me when I'm like, yeah, but that donut looks really good. Tips have you incorporated for yourself. 

[00:46:43] Veronica Campbell Brown: It's about prioritizing. For example, when it, when it comes to eating, if you can eat 80% healthy all the time, then you can give yourself room for, say, eating cream cone or eat a dough 20% of the time.

So it's about disciplines. You have your discipline and say, okay, Saturdays are, or Friday's gonna be my cheat day. And if you are able to eat healthy all those days prior, then you're okay to kind of enjoy that cheat day. And so if you can create that balance and be determined and know that, okay, I'm gonna be disciplined for this time, but then I'm gonna enjoy myself this time and by, by doing it like that, then I think it may be easier.

But if you, if you do not create that discipline and create boundaries and prioritize things harder for you to stay on track. 

[00:47:37] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah, let me grab that and, and flip it into, so one of the games that we play with all the guests, and you're welcome to abstain from the game if you like, is choke and change the, the like using that example that we just said there, does either of you feel comfortable sharing a time along the journey where you were like, I actually kind of gave in like I didn't do what I, what we've just spoken about there?

Or I didn't stay fixed on the goal or I didn't handle a clutch moment well and here's what I learned and here's what I do now as a result of that. 

[00:48:08] Veronica Campbell Brown: Yeah. I think I have a story. 

[00:48:10] Paddy Steinfort: Go for it. I'm excited. Yeah. I love stories. 

[00:48:14] Veronica Campbell Brown: Yeah. So the 2011 World Championship, I got distracted a little bit. I, my semifinals did not go so well and I think I'm a little bit too hard on myself and I think I used energy trying to complain about.

Didn't maximize my start and I didn't do do something as opposed to realize that okay, didn't do the finals. So now I have an hour and a half just to, to focus, just refocus and go for the finals. And I think I spent a little too much time beating myself over the semifinals. And I got to the start. And even they are really, I lost a hundred meter.

came second because I spent too much time wasting on the past. And that was the first and the last time I learned a lesson, always good at putting things behind me and move on. And I, a little bit about maybe the person who I lost to or whatever the case was when I knew that I messed up. And so I learned my lesson in the 200 though.

I came second in the hundred meters and I, and I won the 200.

[00:49:21] Paddy Steinfort:  So it um, so it ended, it ended well. 

[00:49:24] Veronica Campbell Brown: Yes, it ended well. 

[00:49:25] Paddy Steinfort: Good, good. Erik, you got an example there from, from a non track sprinter. 

[00:49:30] Dr. Erik Korem: Yeah, I mean my job's been a little bit different. It's been about analyzing situations and being thoughtful about your recommendations.

That's really like where my performance is. And when I first started using GPS tracking back in 2010, I literally went to Australia where you're at right now, went and visited GWS and I was doing this information exchange with them and I brought this GPS tracking stuff back to the FSU, but nobody had ever used it before.

And I had nobody to tell me how to use this stuff. Right. So I tracked a practice and I brought the report to the head coach and it was this sheet of data and I was like, Hey coach, you know, here's the report. And he was like, so was practice hard? And I was like, uh, I think so. And he like literally like cussed me out, like.

I went back to my office and I'm just sitting there like, okay, what did I do wrong? And that's when I like realized like I had just given him a bunch of stuff. Data he couldn't use, I didn't think through the problem. I didn't think all the way through. And so for me that was like a pivotal moment. Like data went out inside is useless.

And so, like since then, and I've worked with a lot of different coaches, I'm always thinking to myself like, what is their response going to be? Like, what is the hurdle that they're gonna have to get over with? And so I, you know, I don't, I didn't have like a moment of choking. It was more like I didn't think through this situation.

And that's really why people in my industry have made their, that's where you make your money, right? Or that's where you make the impact on the team is analyzing a very complex environment and delivering something in such a way that you can get a person in leadership to make a decision one way or the other.

And so it, you know, I've worked with a lot of people and they're like, I wanna do this. I'm like, don't do that. Just don't go there. I've made that mistake. You've got to think through like what their thought process is and everything like that. So that didn't, that hasn't happened again. 

[00:51:33] Paddy Steinfort: Oh, good. The, uh, I, I, I know that I've got a fellow coach who does my job at the New York Yankees who uses the saying, if you want to not think in the moment, you need to think a lot in advance.

And that's a, that's a a saying that I like to throw out there, and I never claim it to be mine, but thank you Lauren, for that little saying. But it's a very useful, and it applies right there, like your ability to go in and, and do the job right. And do it efficiently and quickly and not get in your own way.

You actually have to do the pre-work. It'd be like me turning up to try and run a 200 meters anywhere, let alone at the Olympics. Like if I haven't trained for it, something's gonna go ping. Right? Yeah. The hamstring probably ham ing something else. Ham, uh, this has been a great wandering but great chat. I really enjoyed it and I wanted to just shift gears a little bit. 

Now as we start to wrap it up to one of the exercises that I learned from John Gordon, who is a, one of my favorite authors, a great public speaker, and he actually taught an exercise to Deba Swinney at Clemsons, where I first read about it, which he ran with his whole team and it, and it really helped open up, I probably should do this at the start of the show if it helps people open it up.

But it talks about you. You get the choice of three Hs that you can share with the audience. And in these, in these cases, it's a football locker room. I've also run this with other organizations that aren't sports teams. It's very cool. Each of you can talk for one minute or longer if you want, about either a hero, a hardship, a highlight, or a hope.

Now we've probably covered some hardship there. I know Erik, you mentioned a mentor, so there, you know, we've already kind of touched on some of this, but if this is really the last question. Leading into, I'm actually curious to dig in a little more, Erik, about the data and how that's shifted for you in terms of being like, part of my job to now, like that is what you do.

You're driving an entire business that helps people to derive those insights. You wanna go there? Feel free to take it, but picking one of those four Hs. Go for it. You've got the, the clock is yours. 

[00:53:37] Dr. Erik Korem: Yeah, so I'll start, I'll say hope, you know, 'cause that's, that's a season that I'm in right now. Yeah. So in, in sports tech, I noticed that there was a lot of, like I said, data, no insight.

And it was like, it was always on us to figure out a way to, to derive this information. And so I started looking at the consumer tech market, you know, like Apple watches and Fitbits and, you know, is the same problem exists. Is there a lot of data with no insight? And I found, I read an article in Forbes that said the consumer's number one complaint was that wearable tech was useless.

Now this is like a $35 billion market. So a lot what people are doing is stringing together the cocktail of apps and tech to try to solve their own problems. And so we, me and, uh, I called up a friend of mine and was like, Hey, you know, I want to test an idea I have. And so I, started surveying people's like, what do you want outta your wearable tech?

And they're like, we want to. More energy, which makes total sense. People wanna feel better, right? And so we actually ran a pilot with the Apple Watch to see if we could predict health outcomes with data. And we actually not only were able to predict people's energy, but we were actually able to predict their energy and mood two days in advance, and then figure out where the inflection points where we could insert a recommendation to keep them performing at their best.

And so that's where AIM 7, my company was born. And I'm hoping you know if we wanna go to the H, is that I'm hoping that we get to impact millions of lives with this and deliver upon a massive gap in the market. There are billion dollar companies that have lost huge amounts of money because they're never able to solve this problem.

And thank God I was uniquely positioned 10 years ago to be in a place where I had to solve this problem in sports. Now I'm gonna solve it for consumers. We're gonna deliver customized health and wellbeing solutions, taking data from their wearable devices. 

[00:55:30] Paddy Steinfort: Super interesting and a, and a living, breathing, tangible example of see a little, see a lot, right?

Yes. Where it's like you can have all the data in the world or you can have all the insight into the world. You can have all the experience in the world. It don't mean shit if you dunno what to do with it. 

[00:55:46] Dr. Erik Korem: That is exactly, dunno what to look at and what it means.  Dude, you just need to promo for our company.

[00:55:52] Paddy Steinfort: I'll give you, I'll give you the cut and I'll take a 5% cut on the record. You can have, you can have the video. Feel free to use it. Thank you. Veronica, have you got, have you got one of those four Hs you wanna share? 

[00:56:05] Veronica Campbell Brown: I was thinking about hardship, but then I, I didn't have highlight written down, so I, I'll go with highlight and actually, so as a young girl, I dreamt of becoming an Olympic gold medalist. 

And so my first taste at the Olympic was as a high schooler. I was 18 years old and my Olympic dream came true in 2004, and that was my senior year in college. But I wouldn't say that my first Olympic gold medal was the highlight of my career. I think it was in 2008 when I defended my title and become the second woman in history to win Olympic back to back 200 meters.

And actually I didn't even know that leading up to, because I don't really keep up with stats and stuff like that. I just focus on what I want to get done. But that race was the highlight for many reasons. I, in 2008, I did not make the hundred meter team in Jamaica, so I was defeated in the hundred meter at the trials.

I expected to make the team. I didn't. And so I had. The next day I had to come back for the 20 meters and the, the girls that beat me in the hundred meters were my competitors in the 200. And so I had to lay it out all on the line. I had no choice because now I was a defending champion and I was, I had to get a spot.

I won the trials and I went on Beijing and I won the 20 meter. So that was my proudest moment because I asked a one individual Olympic gold medal and I got two in 2008, I failed in the hundred meter and I was, the first time in my career I was sitting and watching the hundred meter and was not running it at any championship from a, from junior days I was always running the hundred meter and 20 meters.

So this was the first time I felt like I was somewhat rested going into the 200 meters. 

[00:58:00] Paddy Steinfort: Nice. 

[00:58:00] Veronica Campbell Brown: Yeah. The time I run in the 200 meters is still my PR 2174. And at the end of that race, I, I, Erik mentioned, or maybe it was, you mentioned someone who said they feel like they were dying. I actually felt like I was dying at the end of that four meter.

My, I could not breathe. It seems like I. I ran that race so hard. It was unbelievable. I was overwhelmed with Joy to defend my title, but I was like, stressed, was like, I was leaning down. I could not breathe. Alice, I was coming to come and I could hardly stand up to greet her to just touch her like this. I was like my, feel like I was dying.

So that was iLIGHT. So that's why I said that there's always, I always find good in, in, in things that is not so bad because I was disappointed with a hundred meters, but I ended up was more energetic, other 200 meter having only one event and I were able to defend my title and um, I run, um, cemented me in history.

So my 2008 Olympic victory, I would say was the eye is the highlight of my career. 

[00:59:02] Paddy Steinfort: Very cool. I didn't, I didn't tell you too. There this little asterisk on the four Hs game is that anyone in the audience can ask you a question after you've told the story, and I have a question about that. You, you talked about losing the 100 and then having it back up to the two qualified 200 the next day.

There are benefits down the track for you. You were more rested when it comes to the Olympic stage, but that must have felt some way, right? You, you lose that hundred. You, you, you said you were fully expecting to make the team in the hundred. Yeah. How do you transfer that energy, that feeling of, that's not a good feeling probably to, okay, I have to race in less than 24.

How do you transform that? How do you channel it? What did you do to move that emotion to a place where you then went and dominated that 200? 

[00:59:48] Veronica Campbell Brown: Right. So. I had my quick moment, so I cried for a little bit. I complained to my coach and my agent a little bit, and then I quickly had to just shake it off and just refocus.

I knew that my training were good. I knew that I was the best curve runner in the field, and I knew that all I had to do was to focus on me and my execution, and then that would be good enough for me to win because I prepared well, I, I for the hundred meter. I just missed the mark. I think I missed the mark in my starts and the other girls, they came well prepared and they just had a perfect race on.

Mine wasn't in the hundred meter, but I knew that was just the hundred meter not be because the under meter wasn't the way I wanted it. That doesn't mean that I'm not ready. I'm not prepared to run. 200 meters. And so I quickly put the hundred meters behind me and embraced the fact that I did not make the team in the individual 100 meters.

And I was just going to the Olympics to run the four by one at that point. And I really wanted an individual event and I had no choice. The 200 meter was the only thing that I had left, and I had to go there and just go for it. 

[01:00:52] Paddy Steinfort: Yeah, really cool. A good example again of that quick acceptance of, I've gotta take this, I've gotta flush it, I've gotta move on and get ready for the next one.

We'll finish with this final question, which is, as I've mentioned throughout the show, there's many people listening who are not Olympic gold medalists, track beasts. There are many people listening who are not coaches to Olympic gold medalists. They are a regular folk who who may be trying to pursue a college degree, may be trying an audition, music, entertainment, could be trying to build a business, could be trying to make rank in the army, in the military.

Could be just trying to be a good parent or a partner. What have you learned in each of your journeys that you think is actually, you say that skill or that knowledge is transferable to not what I do. Like I can take that home with me. I can take that into a boardroom. I can Like what is the skill that you've learned throughout your specialist training to becoming one of the best in the world that you say, you know what?

I actually can apply that elsewhere outside of that arena? 

[01:01:50] Veronica Campbell Brown: I think for me it is just mental toughness and being determined because as an athlete, by having another organized way of doing things, I know that I have to get up every day and I have to train and I have to do certain things a certain way. It has taught me to be consistent and to be determined and just to stay focused and believe in my stuff. 

And I guess mental resilience is the word I'm looking for. Track and field. My career is not made to be mentally resilient, just just keep pushing true regardless of what I'm facing in life. 

[01:02:25] Paddy Steinfort: Cool. Good example. Erik, you go on.

[01:02:27] Dr. Erik Korem: Yeah. I would say seeing a problem for what it is that is kind of what my career has been built on is problem solving. And there's something in, in the world that I've worked in called, you know, you can look at things as a reductionist or a complex system, meaning like, this is this and this is this and this is this.

But everything is interrelated like in in, even if you're trying to get that job in the boardroom, there's so many factors at play that you may not even know about. Maybe there's a somebody behind the scenes, it's greasing the wheel and you go in so prepared and you felt like you knocked it out of the park and it just didn't work.

There are things, there's all sorts of complex interacting systems and, and getting somebody like a Veronica or somebody else to perform at their best is very complex. 'cause it's not just physical. There's physical, there's mental, there's the diet, there's the sleep, there's, you know, we've had instances where things didn't work out well and it was because of something else.

And so this idea of being able to zoom back and really just like, separate myself from the problem and go, okay, take a really big picture. Look at this thing. Don't get emotional about it. That is like the skill I think that everybody should adopt. Because like right now I'm going from coach to entrepreneur and I have to like really zoom back and be like, I don't know the answer to this.

I gotta test it. I gotta go find somebody that's got the answer. I gotta go get them on my team. You know? And, and so I think that's, I think that's a skillset that anybody can. 

[01:04:02] Paddy Steinfort: Very cool. Very cool. Little additional thing that I don't reckon I learned until I really got deep in the weed of some of this work is that toughness is not all about creating the, there is absolutely a big chunk of it that's resilience, but there's also flexibility in the ability to look at things a different way or to hold your feelings in check while you search for the truth. 

That was a little too philosophical and I'm not normally that philosophical. Veronica, I'll just, I'll put a disclaimer out there then, but that sounded like some Plato shit. Um, on that note, we'll, we'll wrap it up. I wanna say a big thanks to both of you for joining us here on the show.

Really appreciate your stuff. If people are looking to track you down on the Worldwide web, because they wanna follow up with something you said or they wanna hear more about Aim seven or Veronica, I, I know you have a clothing line that that's doing big things. If anyone wants to find each of you, where would they go?

[01:04:49] Veronica Campbell Brown: So I can be found at vcbfit.com or veronicampbelbrown.com or Instagram. You can DM me. So any of those websites, you can just shoot an email and I'll definitely get it or DM me. I'll check my dms and if it makes sense then I definitely reply. 

[01:05:08] Paddy Steinfort: Alright, great stuff. We, we'll put, we'll add some links to the bottom of show on the, uh, on the show notes on the page. Erik, how about yourself? 

[01:05:15] Dr. Erik Korem: Yeah, so Instagram is @ErikKorem and we put out a lot of content on how people can achieve high performance in their own lives. Um, it's something I'm very passionate about. I also have a podcast called The Blueprint, which is about high performance, and then EricKorem.com, AIM seven. If they wanna sign up for like my high performance newsletter, they can go there. 

[01:05:33] Paddy Steinfort: Awesome. I look forward to that. Wish you both all the best. Thank you.